Hill Farmstead Saison

[More Betterness]

Anyone want to compare Weiner sizes? I can send you a few bottles of mine and you can figure out if you want to send yours 3-12 months from now.

I fermented C2C at 68 degrees

I'm in!

 

[suprchunk1]

Color difference is very interesting. Not sure what the cause is really. Both were same exact color on day one. Any idea what can cause wort to darken? I'm still a bit of a fermentation noob.

Looks like there is more yeast in suspension with the sacch. And different yeast seem to flocc differently. I've brewed up a barrel of the same wort and treated each one with different yeast. Not a one look the same.

 

[Ziggy]

What did you guys ferment C2C at?

Between 65 and 70

 

[Vogt52]

What did you guys ferment C2C at?

Started at 66 ramped up to 72

 

[Vogt52]

Anyone want to compare Weiner sizes? I can send you a few bottles of mine and you can figure out if you want to send yours 3-12 months from now.

I fermented C2C at 68 degrees

We're in

 

[quirkzoo1]

We're in

You had him at weiner.

 

[Vogt52]

You had him at weiner.

I was in possession of the TalkBeer dildo for a bit. Definitely put it to good use. Thanks BravoDawg


IllbeBOCK enjoyed it a little too much

 

[jivex5k1]

Sampling the extract saison I made pitching TYB 184 alongside WLP565 (belgian saison 1). Went from 1.063 to 1.014 in 21 days. I'm pretty bad at picking up nuances in flavor but I can say that it's slightly tart and sweet. A lot of sulfur aroma is present but it's still young, it seems to happen with all of my brett beers and goes away after 3 months or so.

 

[mjohnson171]

Maybe I'm late to the game but was under the impression that Shaun spiked all this beers with champagne yeast to deter people from using his house strain. I recall this was right around the time of the whole fight with SARA bc they "borrowed" his house strain (then Shaun and Adair made nice). So any HF beer sometime around mid-2013 would have champagne yeast in it (or at least it used to as I recall a conversation I had with Shaun about it).

So I would think by using HF dregs post 2013 you're not really getting much from them.

 

[ncaudle]

So I would think by using HF dregs post 2013 you're not really getting much from them.

wine/champagne yeast only affect sacc strains. no affect on brett strains

 

[ncaudle]

slightly off-topic but if you never tried, wine yeast and brett work marvelously together!

 

[ShawDeuce221]

slightly off-topic but if you never tried, wine yeast and brett work marvelously together!

In primary/secondary/bottling/all?

 

[ncaudle]

In primary/secondary/bottling/all?

primary of course. outside of something like fruiting there is practically no reason to secondary

 

[drgarage1]

primary of course. outside of something like fruiting there is practically no reason to secondary

Other scenario would be to get off spent hop matter in a beer that's being aged for an extended period. Things can get pretty damned vegetal otherwise...

 

[Beerontwowheels]

Other scenario would be to get off spent hop matter in a beer that's being aged for an extended period. Things can get pretty damned vegetal otherwise...

Hmm. I don't think this is a concern here (especially for this style). I've aged wild ales in primary for damn near two years. It's not like your dry hopping and then extended aging...right...?

 

[drgarage1]

Hmm. I don't think this is a concern here (especially for this style). I've aged wild ales in primary for damn near two years. It's not like your dry hopping and then extended aging...right...?

Right. But if you did a huge hop at flameout, a lot will be in suspension at transfer...

 

[ncaudle]

Right. But if you did a huge hop at flameout, a lot will be in suspension at transfer...

for 99% of my beers, I ONLY hop at flameout... no issues so far.
are you just dumping pellets in loose?

 

[drgarage1]

for 99% of my beers, I ONLY hop at flameout... no issues so far.
are you just dumping pellets in loose?

In kettle? Yes.

 

[ThirstyGator1]

Anyone package/taste their C2C brews? Debating how long to let mine go before kegging.

 

[jivex5k1]

Sampling the extract saison I made pitching TYB 184 alongside WLP565 (belgian saison 1). Went from 1.063 to 1.014 in 21 days. I'm pretty bad at picking up nuances in flavor but I can say that it's slightly tart and sweet. A lot of sulfur aroma is present but it's still young, it seems to happen with all of my brett beers and goes away after 3 months or so.

Bottled this tonight, it's down to 1.010 and pretty tasty. Sulfur is gone as expected, tartness is more subdued.

 

[hornydevil]

Question is really, is it just isoalphas or alpha, myrcene, humulene etc. that get extracted at lower temps throughout the cooling process?

It's "hop related compounds" in general. You can achieve inhibition of (some) bacterial growth without boiling your hops/isomerizing alpha acids.

 

[hornydevil]

for 99% of my beers, I ONLY hop at flameout... no issues so far.
are you just dumping pellets in loose?

You could always switch to whole leaf. That would help.

 

[More Betterness]

C2C and TYB 184 took my saison down to 1.001 when I mashed the same temp as last time which ended up at 1.005. Bumped the ABV north of 7 but tastes fantastic! Give me a few months of bottle conditioning and I'm ready to send out a few bottles if some of you are still interested in a swap!

 

[hornydevil]

C2C and TYB 184 took my saison down to 1.001 when I mashed the same temp as last time which ended up at 1.005. Bumped the ABV north of 7 but tastes fantastic! Give me a few months of bottle conditioning and I'm ready to send out a few bottles if some of you are still interested in a swap!

FWIW, you could have bumped your FG up a little if you wanted to by adding lactose, as I think both of those Brett strains are lactose negative. Not that you'd want to do that, but it's just a heads-up for future reference.

How many volumes of CO2?

 

[More Betterness]

FWIW, you could have bumped your FG up a little if you wanted to by adding lactose, as I think both of those Brett strains are lactose negative. Not that you'd want to do that, but it's just a heads-up for future reference.

How many volumes of CO2?

I don't actually mind how dry it is! Tart and dry with the tropical fruit character that 184 throws is right in my wheelhouse! Also the perceived body is much fuller than the FG would lead one to believe.

Haven't primed yet as I was planning on bottling Wednesday. Transferred it into a flushed keg and will bottle with a beer gun. Probably aiming for 3 volumes or so but haven't fully decided.

 

[hornydevil]

I don't actually mind how dry it is! Tart and dry with the tropical fruit character that 184 throws is right in my wheelhouse! Also the perceived body is much fuller than the FG would lead one to believe.

Nice.

Haven't primed yet as I was planning on bottling Wednesday. Transferred it into a flushed keg and will bottle with a beer gun. Probably aiming for 3 volumes or so but haven't fully decided.

Thick 750s? If so, might I be so bold as to recommend 3.5- 4 with that low of an FG?

 

[More Betterness]

Nice.



Thick 750s? If so, might I be so bold as to recommend 3.5- 4 with that low of an FG?

Yessir, champagne style 750s. I was definitely kicking around going higher, maybe I'll aim closer to 3.5.

 

[TripleSixHoppia]

3.5 vols is GOAT for sour beer. I'm a champagne whore though.

 

[More Betterness]

After a few weeks of being lazy and letting it sit in the keg, finally bottled this sucker off to condition. Tastes great flat and warm, so I'm excited to see what happens when the Brett referments under pressure!

 

[into the white]

Thinking of brewing a few gallons of honey saison soon and copitching 3726 and TYB184. Potentially dumb question as I've never tried a mixed fermentation before: would pitching a small amount of sour dregs in secondary (Cantillon Classic Geuze or RdG) be likely to result in a mostly sour beer, or would keeping the pitch very small enable getting subtle characteristics of that funk and tartness without overwhelming the primary yeast flavors?

 

[dimensionx]

Thinking of brewing a few gallons of honey saison soon and copitching 3726 and TYB184. Potentially dumb question as I've never tried a mixed fermentation before: would pitching a small amount of sour dregs in secondary (Cantillon Classic Geuze or RdG) be likely to result in a mostly sour beer, or would keeping the pitch very small enable getting subtle characteristics of that funk and tartness without overwhelming the primary yeast flavors?

Maybe? If the beer is highly attenuated and/or there is not much left for the Brett and bacteria to eat, then the acidity and funk should be less pronounced. If you want to keep it really mellow, you could pitch dregs in secondary and avoid wheat. Generally speaking, a bigger pitch of Brett will result in a less acidic, less funky beer. Building up a starter from your dregs or a whole pitch of Brett in secondary might be the way to go if you are looking for a "restrained" acidity.

 

[drgarage1]

Maybe? If the beer is highly attenuated and/or there is not much left for the Brett and bacteria to eat, then the acidity and funk should be less pronounced. If you want to keep it really mellow, you could pitch dregs in secondary and avoid wheat. Generally speaking, a bigger pitch of Brett will result in a less acidic, less funky beer. Building up a starter from your dregs or a whole pitch of Brett in secondary might be the way to go if you are looking for a "restrained" acidity.

You can also hop pretty heavily to inhibit the bacteria.

 

[Vogt52]

Maybe? If the beer is highly attenuated and/or there is not much left for the Brett and bacteria to eat, then the acidity and funk should be less pronounced. If you want to keep it really mellow, you could pitch dregs in secondary and avoid wheat. Generally speaking, a bigger pitch of Brett will result in a less acidic, less funky beer. Building up a starter from your dregs or a whole pitch of Brett in secondary might be the way to go if you are looking for a "restrained" acidity.

So a larger pitch of Brett decreases funk? I'm not one who loves straight barnyard funk in my beer.

 

[quirkzoo1]

So a larger pitch of Brett decreases funk? I'm not one who loves straight barnyard funk in my beer.

Yes, large pitch of Brett in primary and it will be pretty close to a sacc fermentation. Most of what we think of as "bretty" flavors are Brett metabolizing byproducts if fermentation (i.e. Esters from saison yeast getting turned into funk).

 

[Vogt52]

Yes, large pitch of Brett in primary and it will be pretty close to a sacc fermentation. Most of what we think of as "bretty" flavors are Brett metabolizing byproducts if fermentation (i.e. Esters from saison yeast getting turned into funk).

So to achieve something with such balance as HF, what all do you pitch and when?

 

[Thorpe]

So to achieve something with such balance as HF, what all do you pitch and when?

Not really a recipe for cloning HF, but here's what I do for creating a balanced, nuanced saison (well, at least according to me):

Pitch mostly saison yeast alongside a bit of Brett that tends to be fruitier rather than funky but in a small amount that isn't going to take over the character. Would not use Lacto. Would instead use something with more depth for a slow, mild acid build over time. Use something like dregs from a bottle of JP or 3F.

Finally -- and maybe even more important than any of the above -- watch your water profile and pH.

 

[More Betterness]

Not really a recipe for cloning HF, but here's what I do for creating a balanced, nuanced saison (well, at least according to me):

Pitch mostly saison yeast alongside a bit of Brett that tends to be fruitier rather than funky but in a small amount that isn't going to take over the character. Would not use Lacto. Would instead use something with more depth for a slow, mild acid build over time. Use something like dregs from a bottle of JP or 3F.

Finally -- and maybe even more important than any of the above -- watch your water profile and pH.

^This.

Starter of Omega Yeast C2C and TYB 184 copitched with a tick of lacto produced very HF like results for me. TYB 184 is straight musty tropical fruit. 5.2 mash pH and softer water in saisons FTW!

 

[Thorpe]

^This.

Starter of Omega Yeast C2C and TYB 184 copitched with a tick of lacto produced very HF like results for me. TYB 184 is straight musty tropical fruit. 5.2 mash pH and softer water in saisons FTW!

For these I like chloride higher than sulfate but nothing too high. Chloride around 100ppm, sulfate at 70 or so ppm, and sodium up to 40-50ppm.

 

[More Betterness]

So HF inspired saison I've mentioned above (Omega C2C, TYB 184, Lacto brevis) that has had no off flavors to speak of as of two weeks ago after 6 months of aging and ~3 additional months bottle conditioning has now developed a relatively offputting aroma. Would lean towards butyric as it is slightly "bile-y" but not totally sure and didn't think butyric came to the party this late. Solely present in the aroma, I get none of it in the taste. Could just be something getting weird under pressure in the bottle and may need to just let it work itself out, but it's really pissing me off! Any thoughts?

 

[More Betterness]

Not really a recipe for cloning HF, but here's what I do for creating a balanced, nuanced saison (well, at least according to me):

Pitch mostly saison yeast alongside a bit of Brett that tends to be fruitier rather than funky but in a small amount that isn't going to take over the character. Would not use Lacto. Would instead use something with more depth for a slow, mild acid build over time. Use something like dregs from a bottle of JP or 3F.

Finally -- and maybe even more important than any of the above -- watch your water profile and pH.

What pH you usually aim for in these?