High Gravity Custom eBIAB System

[bendog15]

My review.
Pretty much the easiest brew day ever. I’ve been using a propane fired kettle and igloo cooler for mashing for 6 years. Wish I made the switch to electric sooner.
I bought the ssbrewtech 20 gal kettle from high gravity since I wanted to do full volume BIAB. I make 10 gal batches. The setup from high gravity was everything I wanted in a package deal. The only thing I added was a recirculating arm to my order. Dave at high gravity couldn’t be nicer and patiently answered all my questions. The order shipped very quickly and I built a new brew bench.
After the new system arrived, it was fairly easy to assemble. I hooked it all up and tested for leaks. I boiled some water and tested out the pumps. A few tightening here and there and we’re good to go. The night before brew day I filled up the kettle with 15 gal of water even though BeerSmith said to use 14.2 gal. I was curious about the evaporation rate and not sure what to expect. I also grinded my grains. I went with a very simple blonde ale recipe, only a 15 lb grain bill. A nice light 4.5% blonde to test out the new system.

I hit power and set the mash temp. Heating 15 gal to 152 took 37 min. About the same time as it would on my bayou classic propane burner.

Mashing in was as simple as dumping the grains into the brewbag, which was sitting in the stainless steel basket.

After a quick stir, I turned on the pump and attached the hose to the lid, which has a nifty spray nozzle underneath.
The 1 hour mash was pretty uneventful, the pump recirculated the wort from the bottom ball valve and thru the top lid perfectly. I adjusted the flow from full to about medium, and noticed the worthog controller stayed at a perfect 150 degrees the entire time. Temperature readings I took from the top of the kettle varied 1-2 degrees from the bottom of kettle where probe is located varied 1-2 degrees. No big.

 

[bendog15]

I got this sweet pulley system from brewbag website.
The worthog controller did beep a lot during the mash. I’m sure it was just cycling power on and off to maintain the correct mash temp. I also believe you can edit the beeping noise by reading the manual. I didn’t really care too much. I raised the mash temp from 150 to 168 for a saccharification rest for 10 min.

When it got time to remove the grains I simply hooked up the bag and hoisted it above the kettle, leaving it to drip while I hit boil on the controller. It took 35 minutes for 14 gal of 168 degrees to come to boil.

disposing of the grains was as simple as lining the basket with a trash bag and inverting the brew bag full of spent grains into it.

 

[bendog15]

One strange thing, no beep from the controller when 212 degrees was reached. Again I don’t care and I’m sure that can be adjusted in the controllers settings somewhere. Just weird that it beeped a lot during the mash and no beep at all during the boil phase.

I didn’t add any fermcap, wanting to see what kind of head would appear on the surface, and if I would experience any boil overs. 14 gal of wort reached almost to the 16 gal mark, then settled down. Such a huge amount of space in that kettle! Pretty pleased with that. I’m sure larger grain bills will achieve more head, but I have zero concerns about boilovers with the ss brewtech kettle. The Blichmann coil worked like a charm. I think those guys know what they’re doing.

a nice, slow even boil was reached. Not like the crazy boils and boil overs I’ve had with my propane burner (and lack of headspace)

I added hops during the boil (I throw them straight in, no hop bag for me) and added my immersion chiller the last 15 min of the easiest boil ever.

 

[Beer-lord]

Great brew day update. I'm with you, should have done this long ago.
Cheers!

 

[bendog15]

With my jaded immersion chiller going, I turned the controller back to mash setting so i could moniter the temp as the wort cooled down. I also turned on the pump to recirculate the wort through the arm while it chilled.

chilling down 11.75 gal of wort to groundwater temp took 13 min. I normally use a cordless drill with a paint stirrer attachment, but wanted to see how the recirculating arm would do. It took a little longer than usual, by about an extra 3-5 min.

I attached the pump to a hose with a aerating tip and transferred cooled wort into fermenters.

kettle being emptied

trub dam does a great job leaving hop matter and trub behind.

 

[bendog15]

I was left with an extra 1.5 gal of wort. Had I just used the amount of water BeerSmith called for, I’m sure I would have less, and maybe my efficiency would have been a little better. I hit 1.039 OG for 72% efficiency. Not bad, but i double crush my grains and have reached higher efficiency with BIAB, although I’ve never done “true” full volume BIAB.
Discussion-
Simply amazed at the high gravity setup. It was so simple and easy. I absolutely loved it! I pretty much just sat there and stared while this automated system did my work for me. It was pretty rad. Maintained a perfect mash temp, hoist the bag, and hit boil. The boil was gentle and smooth. I’m used to working harder on my brew day.
The spray nozzle seems like a good idea, it is a bit of a novelty but it seems to work. In the future I may try to omit the pump during the mash to see if I get the same efficiency by just giving it a stir every 20 min. I bet I will.
This brew day took 4 hours. My brew day is normally 3.5 hours, but I have that down to a science. I’m sure I will get a little faster as time goes.
Just not having to use my giant propane burner was worth it. No giant flame, no running outside every 5 min to check on it, no worry on windy days. Just hit a button and strike water heats to perfect temp? Are u kidding me?? The quality of the gear is superb. I have so much space in a 20 gal pot, and the ssbrewtech kettle is one of the best. Great craftsmanship.
Cleanup involved tilting the kettle to pour out the trub (a bit awkward cuz the kettle is so big) and filling up with pbw and water. I recirculated the solution thru the lines for 15 min and wiped down the kettle with a hand towel. Then rinsed her out and done for the day.
All in all, I’d say this was the easiest brew day ever, so simple it wasn’t fair. I’m set for life!!!!

 

[flubbss]

The spray nozzle seems like a good idea, it is a bit of a novelty but it seems to work. In the future I may try to omit the pump during the mash to see if I get the same efficiency by just giving it a stir every 20 min. I bet I will.

Could you recirculate through your whirlpool arm rather than through the spray nozzle? Or does doing it that way offer no benefit?

 

[bendog15]

Could you recirculate through your whirlpool arm rather than through the spray nozzle? Or does doing it that way offer no benefit?

Yes can definitely recirculate thru whirlpool arm. But liquid is drawn out thru the bottom of kettle at the ball valve, and the whirlpool arm also empties into the bottom of the kettle. For mashing, I don’t think it would offer much benefit...

 

[nesbit6363]

Bendog15 I really like the setup! I have a question I think you can answer. I’m building a kettle with welded ports and using a BoilCoil and need to know where the temperature probe sits off the bottom of the kettle. I want it as close as possible to the coil.

 

[Beer-lord]

I can't say where Bendog15's probe sits but mines about 1/2" above the top of my BoilCoil.

 

[nesbit6363]

I can't say where Bendog15's probe sits but mines about 1/2" above the top of my BoilCoil.

Thanks, but I need to know what it is off the bottom of the kettle, my plan is to have spike brewing make me a 15 gal kettle and I was going to put the boil coil in afterwards. Going off the installation template from Blichmann the top hole is 4.3in off the bottom of the kettle so I think if I place the temp probe port at 4.875 I would be good. I might see if I can send the coil to them and just have them install it.

 

[brewman !]

How does the sparge nozzle not plug up with debris ?

How can spraying hot wort not induce oxidation ?

I don't get what the big deal is about these systems. It's a Bayou Classic pot and basket with a pump and controller. Am I missing something ?

 

[nesbit6363]

I’m going to be switching to a system like this, still not sure if I’m going to build my own or just order from High Gravity. I’m going from using a propane kettle and cooler mash tun, for me the benefit is to switch to electric and cut time off my Brew day. Also have less things to cleaning.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

How does the sparge nozzle not plug up with debris ?

There is a small inline plastic strainer just ahead of the spray head that captures any bits. I clean mine after every batch. It's easy to take apart and clean.

How can spraying hot wort not induce oxidation ?

After over 4 years using my HG system I consider this to be a myth. Others may disagree although after 100's of gallons of beers no one has ever said my beers were oxidized.

I don't get what the big deal is about these systems. It's a Bayou Classic pot and basket with a pump and controller. Am I missing something ?

It's a well-designed turnkey system. Pretty much just plug 'n play. DIY's will probably rather build their own though.

 

[Yambor44]

.......
How can spraying hot wort not induce oxidation ?........

This is what I am researching at the moment. Based on my own personal experience, every brew I’ve made with this system (9)has the same “off” flavor to me. Friends drink it and say it seems fine but they lean towards the BMC beers for the most part, plus it’s FREE beer! [emoji41]

I’ve changed my water, checked and rechecked all equipment from the kettle to the taps for anything that could lead to contamination.

Before getting back into brewing I bought a BIAB bag and did a test batch with an existing kettle and propane burner and no recirculation. I wanted to make sure I really did want to get back into brewing and particularly BIAB brewing before investing the money in a new system. That batch came out wonderfully. Perfect for my IPA tastes.

As mentioned, since then the rest on the HG system (9) have been off. Both all grain and extract (I bought a couple of kits to make sure my milling and recipes were not the issue).

As most of you know I’ve recently discovered my temps were off and had to return my controller for a replacement. I haven’t brewed with the new one since getting it back. I’m going to brew tomorrow and continue with my prior practice of recirculating the mash along with confirming temps, trying to see if the controller was the issue - I’m hoping so. [emoji854]

With all of that being said, here’s a copy and paste from brulosopher’s site quoting John Palmers book:

“In what is arguably the most trusted and popular book on homebrewing, How To Brew, John Palmer cautions:

“You should not aerate when the wort is hot, or even warm. Aeration of hot wort will cause the oxygen to chemically bind to various wort compounds. Over time, these compounds will break down, freeing atomic oxygen back into the beer where it can oxidize the alcohols and hop compounds producing off-flavors and aromas like wet cardboard or sherry-like flavors.” (6.9.3)

He again brings up the perils of HSA in the Starting the Mash section, explaining, “Hot side aeration can occur anytime the wort is hotter than 80°F. Oxidation of wort compounds will not be affected by the subsequent boil, and will cause flavor stability problems later.” This seems to suggest that a gentle hand should be used at all steps in the brewing process that come prior to the wort being chilled.”

The only thing I’m doing different between that test BIAB brew with the propane burner is this system. If this batch tomorrow comes out with the same off flavor, I’ll be adding a cooler mash tun and sparging next.

 

[ScrewyBrewer]

I can’t imagine having all the issues you’ve had. Based on my own experience with my circa 2014 HG system, I’ve had none of them.

Have you looked into your yeast pitch rates and fermentation temperatures?

 

[Yambor44]

I can’t imagine having all the issues you’ve had. Based on my own experience with my circa 2014 HG system, I’ve had none of them.

Have you looked into your yeast pitch rates and fermentation temperatures?

Yes. I’ve US-05 on each batch. Some pitched direct, some rehydrated. I use a deep freezer with a Johnson A419 controller set at ambient 65° on some and 67° on others. Keeps the fermenting beer at 70° or just under (based on temp strips on the BB’s).

I’m using Better Bottles with spigots (clean and check for contamination). I use. 6 gallon for primary for 2 weeks then transfer to 5 gallon and dry hop for last 4-5 days.

I love this system and am at a loss on what the challenge is. I’ve used several other systems and I am used to making excellent beer. I’m hoping it’s just the controller that was the issue all along.

 

[brewman !]

Full volume mash BIAB does not make the same wort that a traditional mash makes.

http://brulosophy.com/2018/03/05/mash-methods-brew-in-a-bag-biab-vs-no-sparge-exbeeriment-results/

It would be easy to replace the spray nozzle with a sparge ring and test it.

 

[Yambor44]

Full volume mash BIAB does not make the same wort that a traditional mash makes.

http://brulosophy.com/2018/03/05/mash-methods-brew-in-a-bag-biab-vs-no-sparge-exbeeriment-results/

It would be easy to replace the spray nozzle with a sparge ring and test it.

I replaced it with some loc-line the last two brews.

 

[Yambor44]

Todays brew went smooth. Bells Two Hearted Clone. Hit my target OG of 1.062 dead on, figured at 70% in BS3. Temps were spot on.

One thing I did different was to stir the mash every 15 minutes, then, according to the recipe, slowly raised the temp to 170º the last 15 minutes and then held for an additional 10. I also did not squeeze the bag but let it drain until it stopped.

I found that during the chill (immersion chiller) the readout can be 10 or degrees cooler on the readout then the overall temp. I was rocking the chiller gently and decided checked the temp with my sanitized thermo pen. Once I stirred up the wort with a sanitized spoon, all equaled out and thermopen and PID readout were inline with one another. One of my challenges it seems was relying solely on the digital readout. Although accurate now, common sense needed to be applied during the chill. Gently rocking the Jaded chiller wasn't enough to ward off all stratification.

Another thing I have noticed is that whirl-pooling after the chiller has been removed doesn't move the trub to the center of the pot (bayou classic). It just settled straight down to the bottom from side to side. Therefore the wort started out cloudy then went super clear then back to cloudy towards the last gallon transferred.

All in all a great day of brewing.

 

[nesbit6363]

Todays brew went smooth. Bells Two Hearted Clone. Hit my target OG of 1.062 dead on, figured at 70% in BS3. Temps were spot on.

One thing I did different was to stir the mash every 15 minutes, then, according to the recipe, slowly raised the temp to 170º the last 15 minutes and then held for an additional 10. I also did not squeeze the bag but let it drain until it stopped.

I found that during the chill (immersion chiller) the readout can be 10 or degrees cooler on the readout then the overall temp. I was rocking the chiller gently and decided checked the temp with my sanitized thermo pen. Once I stirred up the wort with a sanitized spoon, all equaled out and thermopen and PID readout were inline with one another. One of my challenges it seems was relying solely on the digital readout. Although accurate now, common sense needed to be applied during the chill. Gently rocking the Jaded chiller wasn't enough to ward off all stratification.

Another thing I have noticed is that whirl-pooling after the chiller has been removed doesn't move the trub to the center of the pot (bayou classic). It just settled straight down to the bottom from side to side. Therefore the wort started out cloudy then went super clear then back to cloudy towards the last gallon transferred.

All in all a great day of brewing.

Basic brewing radio just did an experiment on stirring the work as it cooled. I think that they found there was a big difference between the temp probe, the thermometer on the pot and a temp gun. I have a question though. Why not just whirlpool during the chill?

 

[Beer-lord]

I whirlpool while chilling and never have to stir or move my chiller around to speed things up. I do have a Hydra chiller and that kicks ass but the whirlpool has done a great job for me.
I never even checked the temperature with anything other than the probe though it seems close because after going into my SS fermenter, the temp probe for my keezer shows a very close temperature to what I just pulled out of the kettle. I'll check next brew day to see how much of a difference vs. my Thermopen.
For me, most of the trub does stay in the middle after whirlpooling but the last few minutes I do slow the flow down so it doesn't throw all the trub all over the place.

 

[nesbit6363]

How do you guys like the BoilCoils? Any issues? Are they better then the ULWD ripple elements?

 

[Yambor44]

Basic brewing radio just did an experiment on stirring the work as it cooled. I think that they found there was a big difference between the temp probe, the thermometer on the pot and a temp gun. I have a question though. Why not just whirlpool during the chill?

Because my immersion chiller sits on the bottom and would block the trub from coning in the center. This brew that didn't seem to make a difference as all seemed to settle straight to the bottom evenly side to side. Now that I am aware of the temp differences I'll just stir once every few minutes until chilled.

 

[Yambor44]

Anyone ever do a BIAB type mash in a cooler then vorlauf and say gravity transfer to the boil kettle to keep some of the proteins down? The one thing I have noticed since switching to BIAB is a **** ton more cold break.

 

[brewman !]

With all due respect, that looks awful.

 

[Yambor44]

With all due respect, that looks awful.

LOL. It always settles down. That's the cold break.

 

[Yambor44]

This is what it looks like currently.

 

[Ahks]

I love how gross fresh wort that's full of cold break looks. Almost like monkey brains lol. But yeah, stuff drops amazingly clear.


Didn't I read that all that cold break gives your yeast some extra nutrients too?

 

[brewman !]

How clean was the wort going into the boil ? What was the grain bill ?

Did the wort get boiled hard ? Was there hot break ? Did you whirlpool it ?

What was the water temp going into the immersion chiller ?

 

[brewman !]

This is a BIAB phenomenon.

BIAB left, NoSparge is right. The difference will be even more stark with recirculation and sparging.

Source: http://brulosophy.com/2018/03/05/mash-methods-brew-in-a-bag-biab-vs-no-sparge-exbeeriment-results/

 

[Yambor44]

How clean was the wort going into the boil ? What was the grain bill ?

Did the wort get boiled hard ? Was there hot break ? Did you whirlpool it ?

What was the water temp going into the immersion chiller ?

Not sure if you’re serious or not but...

Wort is never “clean” once you remove the bag/basket from the wort. Before that it was crystal clear. Grain bill was 2 row, Pale malt and 40 L.

Wort was boiled at 87%. I would assume there is always a hot break. ??? Did I whirlpool it??? Did you read my post?

My wort never goes into the immersion chiller. Not sure what you’re getting at here.

 

[brewman !]

Wort is never “clean” once you remove the bag/basket from the wort.

If you don't disturb the grain bed, the wort stays clear.

Wort was boiled at 87%. I would assume there is always a hot break. ???

If you don't boil the heck out of it, you don't get hot break. You need a full rolling, bubbling boil.

Did I whirlpool it??? Did you read my post?

I can't figure out what exactly you accomplished. "This brew that didn't seem to make a difference as all seemed to settle straight to the bottom evenly side to side." Does that mean it went into the fermentor ?

My wort never goes into the immersion chiller. Not sure what you’re getting at here.

What temperature was the *tap water* going into the immersion chiller ?

So here is the thing... my wort is way, way cleaner than that. Possible reasons:

1) My grain bed stays intact and the wort going into my boil kettle is cleaner
2) My boil is way stronger and it drops out more protein, creating more hot break
3) I filter my wort with a BIAB bag before it goes through the chiller
4) My plate chiller knocks my wort from kettle temp to 50F in 10 seconds. This drops out more cold break, possibly into finer particles. The faster you chill, the more cold break you get. If you chill slowly, it doesn't drop out.
5) I post chill filter some of my wort with a BIAB bag before it goes into the fermentor.

Here I am recirculating wort through the chiller and into a BIAB to filter cold break. Note: this system does conventional mashes with a mash bucket and fly sparge, no BIAB. I'm only using a BIAB bag after the boil to filter out hot and cold break.

Captured cold and hot break in the bag.

Captured cold and hot break in the sink. If I hadn't filtered, this would be in my fermentor.

 

[tmendick]

You're not using a Single Vessel BIAB setup. You cant "leave the grain bed intact" if you're using Single Vessel

 

[brewman !]

You're not using a Single Vessel BIAB setup. You cant "leave the grain bed intact" if you're using Single Vessel

I know ! That is why I didn't go BIAB.

But BIAB people could filter their wort after the boil with a BIAB bag like I did. I think it would make a big difference in the quality of the wort going into the fermentor.

 

[tmendick]

I reread what I wrote here and realized it was more mean spirited than I meant.

I don't think Single Vessel makes different beer, assuming you use the same variables. I think water additions don't get adjusted evenly between single vessel and more traditional when they do side by sides.

 

[brewman !]

I don't think Single Vessel makes different beer, assuming you use the same variables.

BIAB does not make the same wort that a dedicated mash tun makes. For some reason way more trub gets into the fermentor and that affects things.

Source: http://brulosophy.com/2018/03/05/mash-methods-brew-in-a-bag-biab-vs-no-sparge-exbeeriment-results/

I didn't really understand this until I read the exbeeriment and then I saw the trub in the Yambor44's fermentor.

 

[Yambor44]

BIAB does not make the same wort that a dedicated mash tun makes. For some reason way more trub gets into the fermentor and that affects things.

Source: http://brulosophy.com/2018/03/05/mash-methods-brew-in-a-bag-biab-vs-no-sparge-exbeeriment-results/

I didn't really understand this until I read the exbeeriment and then I saw the trub in the Yambor44's fermentor.

I agree. This is why I am trying to nail down my “off flavor” that I’ve had in every single beer with this system.

The only thing different in my process is the system itself. I have placed a bag in the kettle in the center of Th IC and recirculated the wort while chilling. I am not certain that I’ve done it with this system though.

Again, I’m hoping the controller issue I was the culprit so I can move onto other variables such filtering the wort etc. [emoji481]

 

[brewman !]

I agree. This is why I am trying to nail down my “off flavor” that I’ve had in every single beer with this system.

The only thing different in my process is the system itself. I have placed a bag in the kettle in the center of Th IC and recirculated the wort while chilling. I am not certain that I’ve done it with this system though.

Again, I’m hoping the controller issue I was the culprit so I can move onto other variables such filtering the wort etc. [emoji481]

It is really interesting to hear your story and watch you figure things out. Please keep sharing because I, for one, am learning.

Is your 3V still operational such that you could do a side by side brew ? I think people would love to see that, though all you are basically doing is repeating the Brulosophy BIAB exbeeriment.

If I had my guess, I suspect the difference between the 2 systems is:

1) the grain bed has outlets in the side of the grain basket such that the flow doesn't have to go all the way to the bottom. Result: way less grain bed filtering.

2) if you squeeze the bag at the end of the mash, the grain bed gets disturbed and this introduces more material into the boil and ultimately into the fermentor.

 

[tmendick]

BIAB does not make the same wort that a dedicated mash tun makes. For some reason way more trub gets into the fermentor and that affects things.

Source: http://brulosophy.com/2018/03/05/mash-methods-brew-in-a-bag-biab-vs-no-sparge-exbeeriment-results/

I didn't really understand this until I read the exbeeriment and then I saw the trub in the Yambor44's fermentor.

Did they check PH? Did they adjust water for either both? Did they whirlpool both the same?

The gravities were not the same. The mash temperature drops were not the same between the two.

I could keep going. They do decent work, but there are way too many additional variables they overlooked as well