High Gravity Custom eBIAB System

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Just finished my 4th brew on my system and decided on a Rye PA. Kind of dumb since I've had challenges with the recirc but I used a few handfuls of rice hulls and crushed a little less fine and used just more than a trickle and never had any real problems. When I went to mashout temps, the jelly like rye was thick and I did have to stir alot.
But, thought my preboil was right on the money, my OG was off by .04. I guess that's not bad but as a BIAB brewer for years, I've always been very efficient. I did stir every 10 minutes or so too. But I am pleased.

Other things I did was switch to the Wilser bag though I can't see a real difference. I may crush finer next time or just add a bit more base malt to keep the numbers closer but I've always gotten 75% or higher with my old gear so 70% really isn't bad, right?

So, next brew I'll try a few more tweaks but no way could I get by with more than a trickle thru the lid. Just won't work and I guess, it's not needed.
 
i debate with myself whether recirculation is even needed. I just bought an eBIAB system and am tryin to figure out if i wanna set it up to recirc or not. Seems so much simpler and easy to crush superfine, stir it to death, and then leave it alone. (maybe one good stir midway through mash) Many on here seem to have great results this way. I'm still on the fence and will continue to try and learn more before deciding. I enjoyed reading about your experience.
 
NewJersey said:
i debate with myself whether recirculation is even needed. I just bought an eBIAB system and am tryin to figure out if i wanna set it up to recirc or not. Seems so much simpler and easy to crush superfine, stir it to death, and then leave it alone. (maybe one good stir midway through mash) Many on here seem to have great results this way. I'm still on the fence and will continue to try and learn more before deciding. I enjoyed reading about your experience.
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I believe if you did that with the HG system, it might be best to heat it up to mash temps then turn it off like you would with propane as I am not sure how the constant heat would work unless you stirred much more often. For me, this problem is minor. I think it's just beginners experience with system and I've got no problem with that.
 
My pump died on one brew day, so I didn’t recirculate during the mash. All my numbers were the same, I stirred a few times is all.
 
Yambor44 said:
Mmmmm. I leave my wire coiled to keep it neat. Should I not do this?

Rob
Click to expand...
I've had my HG system 4 years and always keep the probe wire coiled up and it's as new as the day I got it. The HG system must have shipped with the older style bags because I use them doubled up to extend their life as they get little holes in them from stirring etc. I run my Chugger pump wide open and never had recirculation issues like I'm reading on the newer systems.

BIAB does use a thinner mash making water property treatment more important, especially if you're not removing chlorine and chloramine. But you do want to keep mash pH in the 5.2 to 5.6 pH range for best results.
 
Beer-lord said:
Did you keep the heat on the whole time?
Click to expand...
Honestly, if I bought my eBIAB RIMS system from High Gravity or any other company and it couldn't be used to recirculate the mash I would have claimed false advertising right away. I feel for you who are having issues and am thankful I haven't had any of those same issues myself.
 
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I really don't see my problems as a big deal. I think tweaking plays a part as well as a few other things that I am working on. 4 beers in (3 being consumed now) and I'm over the moon with how each came out.
And if you read as much about BIAB recirculation on the net as I did (and I read for days) it's not just related to HG systems, it's every other one that is similar in design including self built systems. I don't think it's false advertising at all and even posted a very nice review on their website as I think that much of it.
I'm keeping this for life! :)
 
Beer-lord said:
Did you keep the heat on the whole time?
Click to expand...

I brew early morning and walk the dog during the mash so it was on heat the whole time - about 60 mins. I stirred once and left it mashing about 20 mins more then continued my brew day. All worked out fine!
 
ScrewyBrewer said:
I've had my HG system 4 years and always keep the probe wire coiled up and it's as new as the day I got it. The HG system must have shipped with the older style bags because I use them doubled up to extend their life as they get little holes in them from stirring etc. I run my Chugger pump wide open and never had recirculation issues like I'm reading on the newer systems.
Click to expand...

FWIW on my 15 gallon kettle if the mash volume is greater than 12.25 or so gallons I get a mess, also when I add significant amounts of rye. My solution is to add water to the kettle after the mash to get to the right volume. That being said I’m brewing a 5 gallon batch this week when my temp probe arrives and will try it without recirculating... got 30 gallons in reserve so if it sucks I’ll still have plenty of beer for Xmas!
 
You don't hear about it often but there are a number of BIAB brewers in Australia that recirculate and also use rice hulls. They're cheap insurance. They say they crush fine and use the hulls to keep things fluid. I know they helped me with the rye brew I did this past weekend. I may try them for a few regular beers as well.
 
Beer-lord said:
You don't hear about it often but there are a number of BIAB brewers in Australia that recirculate and also use rice hulls. They're cheap insurance. They say they crush fine and use the hulls to keep things fluid. I know they helped me with the rye brew I did this past weekend. I may try them for a few regular beers as well.
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I'm a broken record... but malt conditioning is really easy and water is cheaper then rice hulls. You should try it once without rice hulls and see what you get. I literally hardly get any flour and I crush fairly fine. The barley hulls are fairly intact.
 
Yambor44 said:
Got it. They didn’t go into detail about where the grain was when spraying it. In a bucket? In a pan?

What’s your method for that part?
Click to expand...
Bucket is what I use. But if you have a plastic bin that would give you more surface area that would be better I believe. But it's not necessary.
 
Whatever floats your boat. Me, I prefer to reduce steps, the fewer the better. I’d rather throw a few handfuls of husks than go through that process, but frankly simply reducing the mash volume works. I’m more interested in the beer, the recipe, than the process myself. But carry on!
 
Actually, I do plan on trying grain conditioning. I wanted to see how the rice hulls worked out with the 3 lbs of rye but conditioning is in my future.
I think that, along with letting the grains sit for 10 minutes after mashing in is what helps best for many.
 
Also when you do start your recirculation do so slowly at first to set the grain bed. This has been my method the last couple and I haven’t had a stuck recirculation since.
 
Yambor44 said:
Also when you do start your recirculation do so slowly at first to set the grain bed. This has been my method the last couple and I haven’t had a stuck recirculation since.
Click to expand...
I recirc really slowly throughout anyway. Don't see the point of opening it wide open really. I think the whole point of mash recirculation is to help with temp stratification. Im doing full volume no sparge 5 gallon batches so the trickle still keeps temps pretty solid throughout the vessel. I bump the flow up a little more during whirlpool but still not wide open. Im lucky to have the new riptide pump that helps with flow control easily. I do stir from time to time...think it's more of an involuntary reflex at this point.
 
btw I received my probe & cable replacement with a note from Dave who said the cable is more fragile, and he would repair the cable free of charge. Turns out it WAS the cable! I'm keeping the extra probe for backup.

Also I brewed with recirculating. It's more fun. If my pump craps out I'll probably not replace it but for now I like the sound of the spray connection.
 
Brewing without the basket- I've seen this posted on other forums and even somewhere on the Blichmann site and never looked far enough into High Gravity's site but did today and read this:
In the early years we used the water heater style element, and the basket was necessary to keep the weight of the bag off of the element. We have been using the Blichmann BoilCoil heating elements in our e-BIAB systems for several years, and when the Brew Bag appeared on the scene we realized that these are a powerful combination. The BoilCoil occupies the periphery of the vessel, and has the lowest watt-density on the planet. The Brew Bag is sturdy, well made with sealed seams, and reinforced with straps with grommets. Using them together, a basket is not required. The element does not bear the weight of the bag. As long as you don't run the vessel dry, you cannot melt the bag. A hoist, or some other lift assistance is required, but this means that you can use just about any vessel.
Click to expand...

I guess I don't understand how they don't get hot enough to either burn the bag or burn the grain. Anyone tried this. Also, the weight of the bag isn't a problem? Maybe I'm just too OCD!
 
@Beer-lord I don't get it either or mind using the stainless steel basket which I always considered to be an excellent design idea. There's just something to be said about having a solid metal to metal contact the basket provides to keep the grain bag firmly in place. Especially when lifting ~40 pounds of wet grain out of very hot wort.
eBIABsystem-sml.jpg
 
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Been an HBT lurker for a very long time and have been watching this thread for a while. I purchased the 15gal HG system in Nov. of 2018 (Happy New Year!). I finished up my second brew on this system today. The first brew went pretty well but today's was different. I ran into the mash issues that others have described in this thread.

A couple equipment notes: I use a steam condenser since I brew in my basement and didn't want to bother with installing in a vent hood. The sprayer for recirc on the lid is the old plastic type that produces the circular spray pattern (maybe HG switched back to the old style?).

First I'll share my recipe for the first beer, a simple helles, in case any are interested or may find it useful (BrewersFriend):

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/714612

The helles had no mash issues, but was low on OG, around 1.035, and had 1gal more than expected going into the fermentor (6.5 gal as opposed to 5.5gal). The high volume could be related to a lower boil off rate owing to the steam condenser in addition to the fact that I way overestimated the strike temp and had to bring down the temperature of the mash using cool water. Anyway, this beer turned out super delicious. Very happy with it. Worth emphasizing that the mash was pretty thin.

The IPA I brewed today had the stuck recirc issue others have reported. Here's the recipe:

https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/724236

I did a few things different with this recipe that I suspect were contributing factors, which are as follows:
  • I usually crush at 0.04 to 0.045. I adjusted my mill (Cereal Killer) today to credit card width which ended up being something like 0.03 to 0.035. I did this to try and boost the efficiency.
  • This grain bill had 1.5lbs of wheat malt. I'm sure that didn't help.
  • I started with 7.1gal instead of the 8gal of water for full volume mash. I did this since I had ended with such a large discrepancy in volume on the first batch. This yielded a much thicker mash.
I ended up turning the sprayer recirc off and just moved the hose to the lower whirlpool port. I turned the heat off at one point as well (prior to switching to the whirlpool). I did this as it was clear that the water was piling up on the grain bed and left coil exposed to air (or so I suspected). Moving to the whirlpool port stabilized the temps but the grain bed stayed much cooler than desired as measured by a separate temp probe located in the middle of the grain (142F). The OG ended up around 1.061 (expected 1.066) and I got 4.5 gal in the fermentor (expected 5.5gal). So I way overcorrected on the volume issue and didn't move the needle on the low OG. Pre-boil gravity was about 1.055. Perhaps lower boil off rate from the steam condenser played a role and I didn't add cool water to mash to correct an overshot strike temp. I'm sure the mash troubles didn't help either.

Based on this thread, I think I'll do the following for my next brew (an ESB):
  • Switch the grain mill back to 0.04-0.045.
  • Malt conditioning + rice hulls
  • Revert back to whatever BrewersFriend's water calculator suggests for water volume.
The ESB has a grain bill less prone to sticking things up, so I'm less concerned there. But the efficiency is something I'd like to improve. I can always add more grain to compensate, but if that boosts the odds of the mash issue then it's something I would prefer to avoid.

Anyway - just wanted to share my experience so far! I think my issues are largely operator-error. I'm optimistic I/we will get our systems dialed in. Maybe sharing some recipes we've had success as well as trouble with would help?

Alright I'll end my novel here :)
 
bur said:
A couple equipment notes: I use a steam condenser since I brew in my basement and didn't want to bother with installing in a vent hood. The sprayer for recirc on the lid is the old plastic type that produces the circular spray pattern (maybe HG switched back to the old style?).
Click to expand...
First, thanks for sharing. While I'm not pleased your having issues, I'm glad it's not just me. Why this happens to some and not others is still a mystery to me. Dave sent me the 'old' lid spray attachment but I've not tried it yet but plan on doing so on a future batch. I'm still trying to work thru other suggestions such as not turning on the pump for about 10 minutes after doughing in. I've not had problems with volumes as Beersmith is close as is Priceless Brew calculator.
Regarding the lid spray attachment, I'm curious why they're back on your unit. Maybe a fluke?

I added rice hulls to my last brew but it had 3 lbs of rye in it. I may not use the rice hulls in many future batches but its a cheap way to help recirculation issues.
 
bur said:
The sprayer for recirc on the lid is the old plastic type that produces the circular spray pattern (maybe HG switched back to the old style?)......
Click to expand...

Did you have any foaming issues during recirculation? Dave sent me the old style also but I haven’t used it yet.

Once I went to a 400 micron bag and very slow recirc for the first 5 mins or so I haven’t had another issue with stuck recirculation. My mill is set at .035.

Also, I usually start with between 8.5-9 gallons of water and boil at 100% for the entire boil.

Rob
 
Yambor44 said:
Did you have any foaming issues during recirculation? Dave sent me the old style also but I haven’t used it yet.

Once I went to a 400 micron bag and very slow recirc for the first 5 mins or so I haven’t had another issue with stuck recirculation. My mill is set at .035.

Also, I usually start with between 8.5-9 gallons of water and boil at 100% for the entire boil.

Rob
Click to expand...

Thanks for sharing! I've not had any foam issues yet, but haven't run it wide open either as in the first case I didn't see a need to do so. In the second case I didn't since the mash was stuck.

Beer-lord said:
First, thanks for sharing. While I'm not pleased your having issues, I'm glad it's not just me. Why this happens to some and not others is still a mystery to me. Dave sent me the 'old' lid spray attachment but I've not tried it yet but plan on doing so on a future batch. I'm still trying to work thru other suggestions such as not turning on the pump for about 10 minutes after doughing in. I've not had problems with volumes as Beersmith is close as is Priceless Brew calculator.
Regarding the lid spray attachment, I'm curious why they're back on your unit. Maybe a fluke?
Click to expand...

I'm wondering if they switched back after some calls from customers - maybe they check HBT? Wouldn't be surprised.

Anyway, I was thinking about this mash thing a bit more this morning, especially as it pertains to other eBIAB systems. I imagine the Unibrau would probably run into this as well given its design (maybe clawhammer too). I did some searching on their FAQ they suggest using a 0.045 crush for this reason (scroll to the bottom under "What's the best grain crush?"):

https://brausupply.com/pages/unibrau-faq

If you search a bit you can find instances of folks reporting stuck mash with that system too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/9ee8v1/unibrau_v3_17_lbs_grain_bill/

I do like the approach there of having a hose attached to the lid instead of sprayer. Seems like it would be a bit more gentle recirc rather than a slow trickle that sort of drills through the center of the grain bed. Maybe a feasible/simple mod to the HG system.

I think a crush adjustment, some rice hulls/malt conditioning, and some restraint on my end regarding water volume adjustment will help a lot. I'll try letting things sit for a bit at the start of the mash as well to let the grain set up. Sounds like multiple folks report success with this type of approach as well.
 
Yambor44 said:
Did you have any foaming issues during recirculation? Dave sent me the old style also but I haven’t used it yet.

Once I went to a 400 micron bag and very slow recirc for the first 5 mins or so I haven’t had another issue with stuck recirculation. My mill is set at .035.

Also, I usually start with between 8.5-9 gallons of water and boil at 100% for the entire boil.

Rob
Click to expand...
Rob, maybe you've posted it before but what bag did you buy and where?
 
bur said:
Thanks for sharing! I've not had any foam issues yet, but haven't run it wide open either as in the first case I didn't see a need to do so. In the second case I didn't since the mash was stuck.



I'm wondering if they switched back after some calls from customers - maybe they check HBT? Wouldn't be surprised.

Anyway, I was thinking about this mash thing a bit more this morning, especially as it pertains to other eBIAB systems. I imagine the Unibrau would probably run into this as well given its design (maybe clawhammer too). I did some searching on their FAQ they suggest using a 0.045 crush for this reason (scroll to the bottom under "What's the best grain crush?"):

https://brausupply.com/pages/unibrau-faq

If you search a bit you can find instances of folks reporting stuck mash with that system too:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/9ee8v1/unibrau_v3_17_lbs_grain_bill/

I do like the approach there of having a hose attached to the lid instead of sprayer. Seems like it would be a bit more gentle recirc rather than a slow trickle that sort of drills through the center of the grain bed. Maybe a feasible/simple mod to the HG system.

I think a crush adjustment, some rice hulls/malt conditioning, and some restraint on my end regarding water volume adjustment will help a lot. I'll try letting things sit for a bit at the start of the mash as well to let the grain set up. Sounds like multiple folks report success with this type of approach as well.
Click to expand...
I've thought about doing the hose thing except with a heavy plug in the end and holes in the hose, so it pulls the hose down and kind of sprays the recirc mash through out the mash...not sure if that helps anything just liked the idea of lodo recirculation.
 
Beer-lord said:
Rob, maybe you've posted it before but what bag did you buy and where?
Click to expand...

Brewinabag.com then clicked on size my kettle. I remember emailing or speaking with him on the phone to order it in 400 micron which is what he suggested for what my challenge was.

I think he has a YouTube channel as well.

Rob
 
Yambor44 said:
Brewinabag.com then clicked on size my kettle. I remember emailing or speaking with him on the phone to order it in 400 micron which is what he suggested for what my challenge was.

I think he has a YouTube channel as well.

Rob
Click to expand...
Thanks, I think the Wilser I have now is 400 but I am not totally sure of that. I also have the BrewBag that came with the HG kit.
 
Judging from what I've read in this thread, and the fact that High Gravity Supplies is no longer stocking the original circa 2014 grain bags I have been using, my guess is the new bags are likely causing these issues. Are we saying the original bags must have been 400 microns? Unfortunately, the bag mesh sizes were not marked on their website either of the times I purchased them. Below is from a receipt of my order back in 2016.

2 - Nylon Bag - 15 Gallon Fine Mesh (5057) $10.95 $21.90

Again I never had an issue with drainage and brew most batches using 23 pounds of grains and 12 gallons of strike water, about 2.09 qt/lb mash thickness, while running the Chugger pump wide open throughout the entire mash.

Below is a picture of the bags I've been using without any issues since 2014. If someone can convert threads per inch into a micron mesh size it would be helpful when ordering this size bag from other sources.

In addition to the threads per inch, the actual thread thickness also comes into play. The thicker the thread size the stronger the bag and the smaller the openings I would think.

HG Original Grain Bag-sml.jpg
 
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ScrewyBrewer said:
Judging from what I've read in this thread, and the fact that High Gravity Supplies is no longer stocking the original circa 2014 grain bags I have been using, my guess is the new bags are likely causing these issues. Are we saying the original bags must have been 400 microns? Unfortunately, the bag mesh sizes were not marked on their website either of the times I purchased them. Below is from a receipt of my order back in 2016.

View attachment 605488
Click to expand...

A really good point. I have an old bag from a previous BIAB system (gas burner system) and took a look at the mesh yesterday. It's much, much coarser than than the BrewBag that came with the HG system. This is definitely a significant factor - I can't see how it wouldn't be. I never had issues with this coarse mesh bag in terms of husks/particulates getting into the runnings - which I see as the primary reason to use a fine mesh. I'll switch to the older mesh on my next brew.

In terms of converting threads per inch to microns, there's not a direct way to convert unless we know the thread diameter is the same (I am pretty sure it's not in this case). But this site did provide a table we could use for an estimate:

http://filterbag.com/u-s-mesh-vs-micron-21.html

So at 28 threads per inch it seems to be in the range of 600 to 700 microns. But the thread diameters are certainly different (thicker on the older-style bag). Regardless, the take-away here is still clear. The new BrewBag is significantly finer than the older bag - it's very obvious.
 
Well, my first brew after changing out the malfunctioning temp probe went fine.

Today I am brewing a mini mash/extract kit and I am back to having 20° discrepancies.

Once the wort got closer to boiling (212° for me) the difference dropped to 10° but that was as close as it got. I unplugged each end of the temp probe cable and reinstalled. Didn’t make a difference.

I can only assume the PID itself is off or the cable is bad. I’ll contact Dave tomorrow to see if there is a calibration I can do on the PID.

Any other thoughts or suggestions?

 
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