High Crystal, Low ABV IPA

[quirkzoo1]

I was listening to a recent Brewing Network Sunday Session (http://thebrewingnetwork.com/shows/1092 I think it was this one) and Tasty and Nathan talk about doing a collaboration with a Michigan brewery for a beer to be served at NHC. They brewed a low ABV ~4.5% IPA, but to maintain the body of the beer they talked about using a grain bill of 12% Crystal 10 (or maybe they said Crystal 15 and my beersmith only has 10 already in it). Anyway, I thought it would be a fun experiment but I am not sure on the hopping schedule for a beer like this. Below is my working recipe but I would love to hear feedback regarding hopping.

75% 2-row
13% Vienna
12% Crystal 10

Targeting 1.045SG and 40-50 IBU's

• .5oz Magnum ~30 IBUs
• .5oz Flavor/Aroma 10 min ~10 IBUs
• 1oz Flavor/Aroma flameout (usually take my time before firing up the immersion chiller but don't do a true "whirlpool")
  
• 1oz Flavor/Aroma dryhop

For flavor/aroma I plan on just seeing what the LHBS has in stock but it will probably stay in the Simcoe/Amarillo/Citra/Mosaic family.

My main questions are-

Ditch the 10min addition?
Hop combinations you like for those three additions?
Given that it will be a lighter beer you think that is enough hops?
Anything I am missing?

 

[Evahflow]

I'd probably drop the 10 min addition. I really like Citra and Mosaic together I don't think you could go wrong with those two.
Personally I'd up the hops a bit by an ounce for flameout/whirlpool and an ounce more for dry hop. I'd probably go more on the citra end on flameout and more mosaic on the dry hop side. I have a bunch of citra and mosaic I've been playing with in different combos and the citra seems to drown out other hops when there is a bunch of it so I usually do a bit less if I want another hop to come through.

 

[Beerontwowheels]

quirkzoo - Hope this isn't de-railing your thread, but I also was lurking around the brewing network last night and came across Tasty's Session Pale Ale recipe. In case you haven't seen it:

1.044 OG
1.014 FG

43% Rahr 2-row
19% Crisp Maris Otter
14% Castle Belgian Pils
14% Crystal 15
5% Crystal 40
5% Carapils

21 IBUs Chinook @60
12 IBU Cascade @20
9 IBU Centennial @10

Dry hop with Centennial @ 1/2 ounce per gallon. Mash at 156 for 45 mins. Boil 90 mins. Ferment at 66 with Cali Ale.

I'm looking to brew something similar within the next two weeks. Will probably use the ECY29 (Conan yeast strain) that I got from ECY and do something a little different with the hop schedule.

I agree with Evahflow about upping the dry hop. I don't think 1 oz will have enough impact.

 

[jebediahscooter1]

I've done the higher % crystal/carapils 4.5% hoppy pale with great results. 50 IBUs all in the last 15 minutes of the boil with Simcoe, Amarillo, and Nelson. I mash at 152* for longer, and I've been really pleased with the results. Huge hop aroma, bitterness is not overwhelming from all late hops, body not too thin, and less sweetness than I expected from the high crystal %. My goal was to brew a 4.5% beer that hides its low alcohol well, and this has fit the bill.

I'm 4 days into fermenting a new iteration. Same idea...4.5% hoppy pale, ~50 IBUs in last 15 minutes, same hops. This time, however, I dropped the crystal down from 9.5% to 8%, ditched the 9.5% carapils completely, replaced it with 10% wheat, and mashed higher (155*). My goal is to see if I can maintain the body that I liked.

So when it comes to brewing the "session IPAs," I basically see two overall approaches:

1) Higher % crystal, lower mash temps
2) Lower % crystal, add wheat/rye/oats for body, higher mash temps

I've done the first approach with success and will be interested to see if the second stacks up. I'll then evaluate which I prefer and continue to tweak that recipe for a house beer.

One thing...I'm sold on hopbursting lower abv beers. I think that the key is landing on a beer that isn't watery, and I think that a sharp bitterness on first sip detracts from the perception of body. The smaller malt backbone is lost in the mix. Adding all of my hops from 15 minutes on makes for less bitterness up front, a bigger hop flavor, and the ability to maintain balance and body despite the hop onslaught. I've done plenty of the 60 minute high AA charges followed by 15, 5, 0, but I think that it's worth it to spend a bit more on hops to get all of my IBUs in the last 15 minutes/hopstands (at least for lower gravity hoppy brews).

I agree...up the dryhops by at least an ounce.

 

[nanobrew1]

I would double the flameout and dry hop additions, otherwise it looks good. Though I do like my IPAs super dry, so the idea of a high % crystal IPA is freaking me out. I also love the use of Vienna, probably my favorite malt. I use it a lot in my sours.

 

[quirkzoo1]

I've done the higher % crystal/carapils 4.5% hoppy pale with great results. 50 IBUs all in the last 15 minutes of the boil with Simcoe, Amarillo, and Nelson. I mash at 152* for longer, and I've been really pleased with the results. Huge hop aroma, bitterness is not overwhelming from all late hops, body not too thin, and less sweetness than I expected from the high crystal %. My goal was to brew a 4.5% beer that hides its low alcohol well, and this has fit the bill.

...

I agree...up the dryhops by at least an ounce.

Thanks for the feedback, exactly what I am looking for as well. I have an IPA recipe that also uses wheat for body and I was really happy with the way it came out.

I would double the flameout and dry hop additions, otherwise it looks good. Though I do like my IPAs super dry, so the idea of a high % crystal IPA is freaking me out. I also love the use of Vienna, probably my favorite malt. I use it a lot in my sours.

My understanding is that because you are using a low Lovibond crystal you are getting body but not necessarily sweetness.

 

[nanobrew1]

My understanding is that because you are using a low Lovibond crystal you are getting body but not necessarily sweetness.

Interesting. I may have to try that soon then. I just got kegging equipment and have been in full on brew mode. I will most likely have to wait until the summer as I already have about 4 other brews lined up.

 

[jebediahscooter1]

I also read some interesting thoughts, can't remember where but it was from somebody legit, on the high crystal %. Basically, their point was that you don't scale down your crystal % in linear fashion as you scale down your OG. Whereas you might be dropping your OG by 25%, you would only drop your crystal by 10-15% or something (numbers are out of my ass, but the point was that you need to use more crystal than you normally would if you don't want just thin hop water). I have no idea where the article is, but I want to say that it was some big name homebrewer like Denny or Jamil. And it worked for me. Something like 18% crystal and carapils with a 75-minute, 152* mash and Wy-1056 in a 4.5% hop bomb, and it was most definitely not sweet hop candy.