Help with pickling with lime?

[breaddrink]

Hi there,

So, my adventures at our restaurant have seen me searching for a reliable way to pickle and can jalapeno rings (as well as other vegetables), only to keep hitting a wall with the crispness of the jalapenos in the final product.

I've experimented with the sodium chloride (pickle crisp) and while it helps somewhat and firms the vegetables, it still see's them darken and soften enormously from the point the hot brine hits them in the jar, to throughout the processing bath (10 minutes).

My manager had me test out the use of pickling lime, as he'd been informed that this was the missing part of the puzzle.
I located and tested a recipe using pickling lime that involved soaking the jalapenos for 20 hours in a solution of 1 cup lime to 2 gallons of water, and sure enough, when it came time to rinse and soak the jalapenos, the pieces were incredibly firmed up. Placing them back into their plastic bucket sounded more like I was shoveling aquarium gravel than pieces of bouncy green vegetable, but the final processed product was actually much too hard. It had a synthetic almost crystallized texture.

Anyone have any input on this?
While the obvious seems clear, that I should try less of a soaking time, and possibly less lime in the solution, the time taken is weeks in the making and it's becoming a little arduous, o any input whatsoever would be fantastic and incredibly helpful.

I have yet to try the use of alum or any other old school techniques at this time.

Thanks in advance.

Rob.

 

[z-bob]

Pickle Crisp should be calcium chloride, not sodium chloride, and should work perfectly if you get the dose right.

I would expect the limed peppers to be exactly as you described until you cook them, and then soften up (but I haven't used lime before) A cup per 2 gallons, and then a 20 hour soak, sounds like too much. That might be your whole problem. Look up some old-school recipes for limed pickles.

Try using Epsom salts to crisp the peppers. (don't use too much!) The magnesium firms them up just like the calcium in the lime, but it's not as strong. I've used it with flabby cucumber slices and it works great, but I didn't cook them.

Edit: https://www.mrswages.com/recipe/old-south-cucumber-lime-pickles/ Did you rinse the peppers and soak them again in water?

 

[breaddrink]

Well it's interesting you say that about the pickle crisp.
It has me wondering if I'm perhaps not using enough.

Do you have a rule of thumb to quantity?
It recommends a 1/8tsp per pint container, and so I'm using the correct amount specified.

I've noted a slight difference in batches that have calcium chloride in there, but not so much that I felt it was particularly successful or capable of making pickled jalapenos to the firmness extent that store bought brands are.
the mezzetta brand for example have an actual crunch to them, not just a firmness, and as I said, I was told to look into pickling lime because so many manufacturers do the same.

Thanks for making me look twice at the calcium chloride.

 

[z-bob]

Well it's interesting you say that about the pickle crisp.
It has me wondering if I'm perhaps not using enough.

Do you have a rule of thumb to quantity?
It recommends a 1/8tsp per pint container, and so I'm using the correct amount specified.

I've noted a slight difference in batches that have calcium chloride in there, but not so much that I felt it was particularly successful or capable of making pickled jalapenos to the firmness extent that store bought brands are.
the mezzetta brand for example have an actual crunch to them, not just a firmness, and as I said, I was told to look into pickling lime because so many manufacturers do the same.

Thanks for making me look twice at the calcium chloride.

http://www.healthycanning.com/calcium-chloride/ Try increasing the calcium chloride to 1/2 tsp per pint. And the calcium chloride is probably cheaper at the homebrew store than buying tiny jars of Pickle Crisp.

 

[breaddrink]

I wonder if it might help to soak the product in calcium chloride before processing.
There's something about just adding it dry right as it gets heat that just feels like it can't possibly be doing anything until the damage is already done and they're already softening.

Seen a couple of recipes where you soak the product in the brine and chill overnight, and then drain, and heat the brine.. Process as usual.
Might try that too.

 

[ericbw]

I have always seen these things done before heating and putting in jars. Soaking ahead of time, rinse, soak again to draw it out, then starting the pickle process. It's a hassle, for sure! (I've also not seen enough improvement to warrant trying it much. I mean, I'm lazy!)

 

[z-bob]

What makes the most sense to me is soak in a cold calcium chloride solution (the trick is figuring out the strength and for how long.) Drain them but do not rinse, then process as normal.

 

[IslandLizard]

What makes the most sense to me is soak in a cold calcium chloride solution (the trick is figuring out the strength and for how long.) Drain them but do not rinse, then process as normal.

I thought soaking in a cold pickling LIME solution, which is Calcium Hydroxide (CaOH2), was the preferred method, until it got "canned" a few years ago for fear of mistreatment and possible development of botulism. To combat that possibility, the acid of the brine should be adjusted (use more) to counteract the carryover of the alkaline CaOH2 solution so the brine pH stays within the safe region.

A few years ago I bought a pound of CaOH2 powder in the Walmart under the Mrs. Wages brand, IIRC.

 

[z-bob]

I thought soaking in a cold pickling LIME solution, which is Calcium Hydroxide (CaOH2), was the preferred method, until it got "canned" a few years ago for fear of mistreatment and possible development of botulism. To combat that possibility, the acid of the brine should be adjusted (use more) to counteract the carryover of the alkaline CaOH2 solution so the brine pH stays within the safe region.

A few years ago I bought a pound of CaOH2 powder in the Walmart under the Mrs. Wages brand, IIRC.

All that is true. But "breaddrink" tried that method and did not like the results. The new way is to add calcium chloride to the jars, and that didn't work because he didn't use enough even tho' he followed the directions.

I have done a cold Epsom salt soak and it works great, but that was for cukes that were eaten raw. I don't remember if I've tried processing them into pickles or not. I think so, and they got soggy when they were cooked but not as bad as w/o the Epsom salt. But I might be misremembering that part.

 

[IslandLizard]

All that is true. But "breaddrink" tried that method and did not like the results. The new way is to add calcium chloride to the jars, and that didn't work because he didn't use enough even tho' he followed the directions.

I have done a cold Epsom salt soak and it works great, but that was for cukes that were eaten raw. I don't remember if I've tried processing them into pickles or not. I think so, and they got soggy when they were cooked but not as bad as w/o the Epsom salt. But I might be misremembering that part.

I just reread his OP. They got too hard in the lime. Maybe a shorter period?

I've never heard of doing this with Jalapenos, but I know it works with (raw, not cooked) pickles. And I don't think it's a 20 hour soak either.

 

[breaddrink]

Yes, just to clarify, the lime shows promise, but not exactly as stated in the recipe I tried.
In fact I'm seeing a lot of vague (soak overnight) kind of direction.
The 6 hour minimum soak I'm seeing is a little tricky in a work day sense, as it then requires a further 3 hour soak and rinse session, so next up on the testing procedure is considerably less lime, and around the same 20 hour duration.

I've two tests at 1/8 the lime concentration, and also 1/16th.
I noticed in the full strength, that.. Well it's odd stuff and doesn't exactly dilute and dissolve in water per se, just kind of hangs out in there, and the 1 cup to 2 gallon ratio seemed just so high.
Also a third batch, double strength calcium chloride soak. For that one I'll just drain and process as usual with the same brine so I can get a contrast from the previous attempts.

I'll let them sit for a week or so after processing before trying, but I'll get back to you.
Thanks for the thoughts. It's been really helpful get my thoughts straight. There's just so many ways to take this.

Rob.

 

[IslandLizard]

Lime doesn't dissolve very well in water. Once the solution's saturation level is reached, the rest remains on the bottom or suspended. You can look up on wikipedia what the saturation level is in (cold) water, only a few grams per liter:

Solubility in water
1.89 g/L (0 °C)
1.73 g/L (20 °C)
0.66 g/L (100 °C)​

Using double of that (little) amount won't dissolve any more, but keeps the solution saturated while Lime is being "used up" in the soaking process. Any extra calcium (or hydroxide) in the solution from other sources reduces solubility even more.

Solubility product (Ksp)
[Ca++] x [OH-] = 5.5 × 10−6​

 

[breaddrink]

Hey there,

As promised I thought I'd update you.

Cracked open the jars and ph tested them. All is well in all three tests, though as suspected, ph higher in the lime soak jars.

In both cases of lime soak, the 1/8th concentration was still too hard, and caused what can only be described as a synthetic texture.
The skin of the jalapeno is almost green apple like now and has lost it's tenderness.
It's by no means as severe as the original full strength soak, and so maybe we're just being more timid and aware of it, but it's unpleasant to say the least.
the 1/16th concentration.. It still had an element of this almost crystallized texture, but it was at least palatable.
Both lime soaked examples also had less of that nice green jalapeno flavor and heat.
I wonder if the three soaks might have diluted things somewhat.

The CC soak.. I doubled the dose to soak, and then also added another full dose as recommended, not really intending them to be necessarily edible, but to see what it would do to the vegetable, but as it turns out, they were great.
The color hadn't muted as much as the previous attempts with CC. The flavor was super vibrant with lots of heat, and most importantly the jalapeno rings had retained their crunch, which was the lacking factor.

I wonder why they stopped recommending the overnight soak on the CC? It seems to have worked wonders.
It also makes me wonder if it's simply soaking them at all in a cold temp might be the factor, and if I'd tried the soak purely with salted water if I'd obtain a similar result.

Food for thought

Rob.

 

[Oldskewl]

I have never used Pickling Lime myself, but after not being satisfied with the texture of my canned Pickles and Banana Peppers I started doing "Refrigerator" Pickles and Peppers. I have been happy with the texture, they can be ready to eat in about 2 weeks, and are claimed to last up to 3 months(but I have pulled jars from the back of the fridge that were unopened that were 6 months old and everything was fine.

Basically you prepare a brine of 1 cup water, 1 cup vinegar of choice(I do half apple cider and half white distilled) and 1 TBS of kosher salt. Boil it for a few minutes and let it cool for about 5 minutes before you pour it over the slicedveggies and seasonings of choice. If I have access to grape, horseradish, or oak leaves I put some in to help with crispness. Seal the jar let come to room temp and put in the fridge for 2 weeks or more.