Help with a clone?

[jaytizzle]

I'm trying to clone one of my absolute favorite brews...

Drake's Drakonic Imperial Stout

Here's what I know:
8.75% ABV
40 IBUs
Single hops addition, bittering only

Label on the bottle says:
"Two-row malt is blended with chocolate malt, roasted barley, and dark crystal malts to make up the grist. Only one hop addition, Columbus for bittering, is added so that the abundance of malt in this beer can shine through"

I am not doing all-grain yet so I'll need this one in an extract with specialty grains recipe. The hops are easy as that will be 2.5-3 oz (depends on actual AA%) of Columbus at 60 mins.

The basic math tells me that I need my yeast to consume 0.0667 to get to 8.75% ABV. Factoring for 70% attenuation, I'd need to start at around 1.095 and end around 1.028, but I fear both of those numbers are a bit high.

Using this estimate regardless, I'd need about 10.5 lbs of DME, maybe 9 lbs extra dark and 1.5 lbs dark.

For the steeping grains, I'm thinking 1 lb english chocolate malt, 1 lb english roasted barley, 1 lb english dark crystal.

Help me with the extract and specialty grain bill, please!?

Also, which yeast would work well with this? Safale S-04?

In short:

Fermentables
10.5 lbs DME (9 lb extra dark, 1.5 lb dark)

Specialty grains
1 lb english chocolate malt
1 lb english roasted barley
1 lb english dark crystal

Hops
3 oz Columbus @ 60

Yeast
Safale S-04

 

[bobbrews]

Please list the following:

Kettle size (the vessel, not the wort in the vessel):
Begin Boil size (the wort in gallons):
Final Batch size (the wort in gallons):
Carboy/Bucket size (the vessel, not the wort in the vessel):

You won't need 3 oz. of Columbus... That's a bit of a stretch. And I would go with pale LME for this. The specialty malts will bring the color and flavor close to where it needs to be. Look into using some debittered black malt and making a big starter of WLP001 to stand up to this beer.

 

[jaytizzle]

I think I did the hops calculation wrong. According to the calculator on tastybrew.com, I need 0.75 oz of hops, not 3 oz. Is that correct?

 

[jaytizzle]

Kettle size - 5 gallons
Begin boil size - 2.5 gallons
Final batch size - 5 gallons
Carboy size - 6.5 gallons

 

[joyceman]

I thought that 2.5 Oz of hops didnt seem to line up with the line about "abundance of malt in this beer can shine through".

If youre going for a maltier taste you want around 1 oz.

 

[jaytizzle]

Yeah, I did the wrong calculation yesterday after a long day of traveling.

Current recipe:

Fermentables
10.5 lbs light LME

Specialty grains
1 lb english chocolate malt
1 lb english roasted barley
1 lb english dark crystal

Hops
0.75 oz Columbus @ 60

Yeast
Safale S-04 (I like dry yeast, haven't fooled with others yet)
or WLP001 with starter

This, assuming 70% attenuation with the yeast, nets me:
1.096 SG
1.029 FG
8.6% ABV
42 IBU
50 SRM

 

[jaytizzle]

Look into using some debittered black malt

Ok, I like the look of that. Which of my selections should I replace with the debittered black? The roasted barley?

I picked up two bottles of this beer on my trip to California last week. I need to crack one of them open and get a fresh reminder of this beer, I think. That should help me narrow down the last of the ingredients.

 

[bobbrews]

Here's a recipe that is sort of similar:

70 minute, 6 gallon full volume boil
5 gallon batch
4 week primary
1.086 OG
1.020 FG
8.8% ABV
51 SRM
WLP001 Starter

11 lbs. Briess Gold LME
3/4 lb. English Chocolate Malt
3/4 lb. Dark English Crystal
1/2 lb. Roasted Barley
1/4 lb. Debittered Black Malt

Some flaked oats would really step this up, but you can't do that for an extract beer.

I would recommend a 4.00 gallon boil / 3.00 gallon batch. You'll have to watch the kettle like a hawk, but it's better than diluting your beer with a bunch of top off water. You would also require less ingredients for this 3 gal batch.

 

[jaytizzle]

Looks interesting but not exactly what I'm trying to accomplish. I thoroughly appreciate the help, please don't get me wrong. I'm trying to clone a beer that I enjoy very much using as much information as I can about this specific beer. Fortunately this one provides a good bit of info right on the label so I'm most of the way there, I think.

 

[bobbrews]

What's wrong with it if you don't mind me asking? It's almost identical to what you want.

Is it the size? Size doesn't always matter ...at least when brewing a quality beer.

If you want to brew big and make the best beer you can possibly make then you'll need to implement a full volume boil with a kettle that's double your current size.

 

[jaytizzle]

Nah, size is fine. I've got a 100 qt pot that I can use if push comes to shove. I ain't bashful about using it. I used it for my first brew and will do so again if needed. I just don't like to use it bc then I have to use propane and that's more expensive than my 5 gallon pot I can use on the stove.

It's almost identical and I'm sure it makes a good beer but it doesn't make THIS beer. I assume you have brewed this recipe you've provided? It likely makes an excellent brew and I'll definitely file it away and make it some day soon. It's just not a Drake's Drakonic Stout Clone, that's all! Regardless, I really am thankful for the help. I mean no disrespect at all.

 

[bobbrews]

It's fine. But what is different about it other than the debittered malt, which you said you would be interested in adding? The yeast? If you want to go with -04, you will need more than 1 packet. With a WLP001 starter, you'll get more attentuation which is a better thing for a beer like this IMO. It won't be sticky sweet, or miss the mark on abv%.

But again, both recipes contain dark crystal, chocolate malt, roasted barley, and extract. Both are approx. 8.8% abv, 50-ish SRM, and you can use 0.75 oz columbus for bittering to attain 40 IBUs.

 

[m1k3]

I agree with bobbrews. If you use dry yeast, pitch 2 packets into a beer this big.
I've been pitching two packs into the last few beers at 1.080.

Also, if you want more of the "American Stout" style I agree go with WLP001 (or US-05 for dry yeast). Most commercial beers would go this route. You'll drink more when it's dry. The S-04 beers just won't attenuate quite as well for me.

 

[jaytizzle]

I've got everything in order with this recipe now. I stopped by my LHBS (big thanks to Aaron at Brewstock in New Orleans!), talked it over, and got my ingredients.

Fermentables
9lbs Light DME

Specialty Grains, steeped 155-165F for 30 mins
0.75 lbs roasted barley
1.5 lbs chocolate malt
1.5 lbs dark crystal 150L

Hops
1 oz Columbus @ 60

Yeast
Wyeast 1084 Irish Ale with a 0.5lb DME starter

I'll probably brew this one up in a couple of weeks. Working on my coffin keezer right now and this will be a perfect big beer to put in my line of 8 taps!