Help w/ RIMS troubleshooting

[phishheadmi]

Hello,

I have a RIMS system that I purchased from a private seller about five years ago. With just normal maintenance, it's worked great since I've had it...up until now.

I'm kind of a noob when in comes to electrical, but I'm not a total idiot. I've traced the wiring, so I think i have a good idea of what goes where, but could use some help.

To explain, I'm going to explain the branch of the system that's giving me problems. I have a hot line that comes in to a switch (my "pump" switch)...from there the hot splits into two lines...one to an outlet for my pump, and one to a second switch (my "heater" switch)...from the heater switch it goes into a SSR, then on to my heating element. The idea is that with this setup, BOTH the pump and heater switches must be turned on for the heating element to fire. I have a PID controller with temp probe that controls the SSR.

As I said, this all worked perfectly, until about a week ago. I was running the pump only, on a cleaning cycle when I heard a small "pop". The heating element had somehow come on, even though the "heater" switch was off. The element dry fired, and blew out.

After a little troubleshooting, I realized the "heater" switch was bad...wouldn't shut off, so I replaced it...same problem. Next, I replaced the PID...no solution...next, the SSR...same issue. Now, I've been checking with a voltmeter and I can't figure out what's the problem. I have about 120v going in to the SSR, and when the PID calls for heat, I have about 120 coming out of the SSR. The problem is, that even when the PID is not calling for heat, I have about 60-90v coming out of the SSR. With the new SSR, it was about 60 coming out...I replaced the old one a checked, and it's about 90v.

I can't figure out what the issue is...any ideas?

 

[augiedoggy]

Hello,

I have a RIMS system that I purchased from a private seller about five years ago. With just normal maintenance, it's worked great since I've had it...up until now.

I'm kind of a noob when in comes to electrical, but I'm not a total idiot. I've traced the wiring, so I think i have a good idea of what goes where, but could use some help.

To explain, I'm going to explain the branch of the system that's giving me problems. I have a hot line that comes in to a switch (my "pump" switch)...from there the hot splits into two lines...one to an outlet for my pump, and one to a second switch (my "heater" switch)...from the heater switch it goes into a SSR, then on to my heating element. The idea is that with this setup, BOTH the pump and heater switches must be turned on for the heating element to fire. I have a PID controller with temp probe that controls the SSR.

As I said, this all worked perfectly, until about a week ago. I was running the pump only, on a cleaning cycle when I heard a small "pop". The heating element had somehow come on, even though the "heater" switch was off. The element dry fired, and blew out.

After a little troubleshooting, I realized the "heater" switch was bad...wouldn't shut off, so I replaced it...same problem. Next, I replaced the PID...no solution...next, the SSR...same issue. Now, I've been checking with a voltmeter and I can't figure out what's the problem. I have about 120v going in to the SSR, and when the PID calls for heat, I have about 120 coming out of the SSR. The problem is, that even when the PID is not calling for heat, I have about 60-90v coming out of the SSR. With the new SSR, it was about 60 coming out...I replaced the old one a checked, and it's about 90v.

I can't figure out what the issue is...any ideas?

you have to test the ssr output under load, meaning it has to be powering an electrical device to be able to be checked with a meter.
the ssr leaks current and will seem like its aways on otherwise.

what country are you in? what voltage is the heater? you should really be seeing on or off voltage out of the ssr under load. meaning 240v or 120v to the element. the 60-90v yours seeing was likely just leakage because of the lack of a load.
to test the function of the pid you just set your meter for dc and look for dc voltage going on and off with the output light on the pid. its usually about 24v dc on the smaller control wires going to one end of the pid labeled + and -

 

[phishheadmi]

Ahh...thanks for that. I'll plug the heating element back in and give it a try. I do have a small LED indicator light jumped off the leads for the element, so I can easily tell when the element is firing or not. It's constantly on (but dim) and gets brighter when the PID calls for heat...seems to be in line with what you're describing. I've checked the PID function with dc voltmeter...seems to be fine.

Thanks again!

 

[phishheadmi]

Thanks again, that solved the problem!

Now, the replacement heating element I purchased won't fit into the tube. I'd been using a 240v 4500w straight element...not really happy with the performance, so i bought this 120v 1500w fold back element thinking it might be slightly more power...unfortunately, the fold back won't fit into my tube (seems like the mfr would make sure the element will fit into the diameter hole that the unit screws into...but what do I know?)

Anyway, what do you think of going with the 120v 1500w element over the 240v 4500w element? Any recommendations for an element? Seems to be some disagreement over whether the stainless element is superior?

 

[blizz81]

Anyway, what do you think of going with the 120v 1500w element over the 240v 4500w element? Any recommendations for an element? Seems to be some disagreement over whether the stainless element is superior?

I've been happy with Bobby's all-stainless elements from brewhardware.com . The first couple elements I used were stainless, but the threads were not, and they'd get a nice nasty gunk buildup on them that I'd try my best to clean out every few months. I forget what the math is for running a 240 element at 120, but 120v 1500w is definitely enough to hold temp if that's all you're after.

 

[processhead]

A 4500 watt 240 volt element operated on 120 volts will put out 1125 watts. The math for the calculating the output is to divide the rated wattage by 4 when powering a 240 volt element on 120 volts.

This is the same setup I have used on my RIMS tube for the last 10 or so years. It works great and I had no reason to change.

 

[augiedoggy]

Have You tried to slow the flow thru the rims down? I bet you'll find the efficiency would go up and the performance should to if the wort spend more time in contact with the element on each pass.