Help troubleshooting AG pale ale

[jk025]

Ok, so I've done about 6-8 all grain brews that went really well. All were wheat beer recipes and got exponentially better as I figured out my brewing process. So I figured it was time to change it up and brew a pale ale. Everything went well during the brew but now that it's kegged, it has this weird "homebrew" taste that all my extract batches had. It's hard to describe the taste, I'm leaning towards, maybe caramalized? The taste went away when I switched to all grain with the wheat beers and now I just want to be able to brew a pale ale that tastes like one. Any help or ideas is appreciated. Thanks.


10# 7oz 2 row
1# 4oz crystal 60l
4.8oz 80l
.44oz columbus 90 min
.77oz ahtanum 10 min
1 whirlfloc tablet 10 min
1.19oz ahtanum flame out

90 minutes boil

 

[tre9er]

Need more description of the off-flavor. Could be oxidation (cardboard) could be diacetyl (butter) or maybe it's just grain

 

[foodplusbeer]

Aside from those that tre9er mentioned, did you mash too high? Was your grain old?

 

[tre9er]

as said ^ what temps did you hit for mash/sparge? What was pitching temp, primary ferm temp, any fluctuation? Bottled or kegged?

 

[duboman]

I will add that wheat beers like to be consumed while young but ales require more time. how long has it been conditioned, kegged or bottled. It's possible you just have not allowed the beer enough time and you are tasting still young beer. give it more time and see what happens, you may be surprised at what happens with some time.

 

[jk025]

definitely not cardboard tasting. It almost tastes like a sweet caramel-ish taste. I hit 156 for 1 hour mash and 168 ish on my batch sparge. I dont think it's the mash because i got the same taste from the extract batches i used to brew. I'm thinking it's either the crystal malt that's adding too much caramel flavor or possibly too much kettle caramelization. It was fresh grain, and I pitched at 69F and fermented between 66-68F. I dont think it's an aging problem because with the other brews that ended up like this no matter how long they aged they still tasted the same as for the off flavor

 

[duboman]

definitely not cardboard tasting. It almost tastes like a sweet caramel-ish taste. I hit 156 for 1 hour mash and 168 ish on my batch sparge. I dont think it's the mash because i got the same taste from the extract batches i used to brew. I'm thinking it's either the crystal malt that's adding too much caramel flavor or possibly too much kettle caramelization. It was fresh grain, and I pitched at 69F and fermented between 66-68F. I dont think it's an aging problem because with the other brews that ended up like this no matter how long they aged they still tasted the same as for the off flavor

Less than 1.5# of crystal malt is not a lot for a 5 gallon batch unless you are extremely sensitive to that taste.

156 is a little high and maybe you got a little less fermentable wort out of it so you have a slightly maltose flavor profile. This assumes also that your thermometer is calibrated and accurate

 

[jk025]

yeah, my thermometer is accurate. Can it have anything to do with having my flame up too high during the boil?

 

[Yooper]

I would find 1.5 pounds of crystal malt and a mash temp of 156 to produce a very "thick" caramelly sweet beer (That's alot of crystal malt- 13%! about twice as much as most APAs I make).

Is it possible that is what you're tasting?

 

[BrewinHooligan]

I would find 1.5 pounds of crystal malt and a mash temp of 156 to produce a very "thick" caramelly sweet beer (That's alot of crystal malt- 13%! about twice as much as most APAs I make).

Ditto, plus too hot of a flame could possibly cause some carmelization.

 

[tre9er]

Ditto, plus too hot of a flame could possibly cause some carmelization.

Think we have it nailed down

 

[jk025]

got any good APA recipes i could try? I think it might have been the flame because i tried to speed up the evaporation towards the end of the boil and turned the flame up a bit

 

[tre9er]

got any good APA recipes i could try? I think it might have been the flame because i tried to speed up the evaporation towards the end of the boil and turned the flame up a bit

Yours isn't bad, dial down the crystal to half pound or maybe 3/4lb. Mash at 152. Shoot for IBUs in the 30s or so and try some dry hopping 5 days or so before bottling/kegging

 

[BrewinHooligan]

I just brewed Lake Walk Pale Ale that I found the recipe on this site. Still fermenting, but amazing so far! It smells like tropical fruit coming out of my airlock from the Simcoe/Amarillo blend. The IBU's are kinda high for the style, but it's a smooth bitterness.

Recipe:
9lbs 2-row
2lbs toasted 2 row (detailed instructions in the thread if you search for it but I just subbed Victory)
8oz flaked wheat
8oz Crystal 60

.75oz Amarillo at 60
.75oz Simcoe at 20
1oz Amarillo at 5
1oz Simcoe at 5
dry hop with an ounce each Simcoe and Amarillo

I used US-05 per the original recipe

 

[tre9er]

I'm loving Nugget hops for F/A lately. Made a Nugget IIPA twice now and I make love to a few each night its 8.5%

Its really just 2row and Pale Ale 50/50 and then half pound of C40, mashed 154, bittered with CTZ. Then 30, 10, whirlpool with Nugget plus 1oz nugget dry hop after primary ferm, then 1oz nugget in keg. Aroma and flavor are like nectar.

Scale the IBUs back to be closer to 30 instead of my 75ish and you'll have a great APA

 

[jk025]

my original recipe was a stone pale ale clone from their book i think. I'm gonna try a pale ale with a 60 minute boil like the lake walk one posted above. I'm betting on the fact that it was a 90minute boil and turning the flame up too much to try to increase my evaporation is what did it

 

[Yooper]

my original recipe was a stone pale ale clone from their book i think. I'm gonna try a pale ale with a 60 minute boil like the lake walk one posted above. I'm betting on the fact that it was a 90minute boil and turning the flame up too much to try to increase my evaporation is what did it

No, that's probably not it. It's probably the relative large amount of crystal (13% is more American amber amounts), the very high mash temp, and the lack of sufficient bittering hops.

The recipe is more of an American amber than APA. A better recipe would be great, and keeping the flame up is fine.

 

[jk025]

ok, so i've decided to go pick up what i need for the powderhouse anonymous IPA as well as the blue moon clone that's been turning out so well for me. Thanks for all the suggestions and help and hopefully the ipa will turn out how i'd like it to