Help Setting Up Kegerator - CO2 Regulators and Manifolds

[Tyler.W]

Hello All,

I recently bought a Kegco Fridge off Craigslist and am slowly building a kegging setup. I brew 2.5 gallon batches and based on my measurements I will be able to fit three 3 gallon kegs and one 5 gallon keg in the fridge (keeping CO2 outside). The plan is to have the 5 gallon keg with sparkling water, and the other three kegs with beer. I have a basic understanding of how kegging systems work, but I am still trying to best think out the gas portion of the project (and looking for feedback from folks with experience under their belt).

Right now my thought is to have a single gauge regulator off the CO2 tank feeding somewhere around 18-20 PSI (for the sparkling water). This would have a tee in the line to feed to the 5 gallon keg, and then it would feed into a secondary regulator. This regulator would be set to around 13-14 PSI (targeting around 2.5-2.6 vol CO2), feeding into a dual manifold and to two 3 gallon kegs. Lastly (maybe with a tee) I would then go to another secondary regulator set to around 9 PSI for stouts/milds/etc.

Are there better ways to do this routing? Will the difference in carbonation really be that noticeable because it would add a decent amount of money to the setup. The alternative I thought of was just using a 4 way manifold feeding everything at 2.5 vol, but I was concerned it may be too little for the water and too much for stouts. I am not sure how much a difference it really will make.

 

[McKnuckle]

Just keep in mind that the more splits and manifolds and regulators you have, the more junctions and thus the more opportunity for leaks. Leaks are the bane of the kegger's existence.

I also use 2.5 gallon kegs exclusively in my large keezer that I originally sized for 8 x 5 gallon kegs. Oh well. I keep the temp at around 39F and set my one regulator to 12 psi. It feeds two 3 way manifolds that are ganged in series. I only have 3 kegs on tap now, but often keep a 4th conditioning. Of course I have room for more but I don't drink that much.

A single setting is totally fine for me because it's simple and a good compromise. I truly appreciate lower carbed English styles and yet, with a little warming in the glass and natural CO2 escape during that time, I'm satisfied enough. My German lagers and American ales are ideal at the standard setting.

You don't have to do it all at once. You could start simple and see if you're satisfied, then augment if you're not.

 

[tracer bullet]

Would this help?: Kegco YH-76S-3 Commercial Grade Three Gauge Secondary Regulator | BeverageFactory.com

I think I'd just get it over with and do it the first time, letting different pressures get to different kegs as you see fit.

I run different beers off a single regulator pressure, it works for me. Others wouldn't consider it ideal but I don't mind my stouts and IPA's all being ~ 12 psi or so. That's kind of up to you.

But I think you'll need at least a 2-regulator version of something like the link, as you already know. Unless you want to start doing odd things with line diameters and lengths. I want to say bars run more like 30 - 40psi, but they are also sometimes moving beer out a basement and across a room. Simple thing for folks like us is just do 2 (or more) regulators.

 

[Tyler.W]

I am all for the simple, and typically cheaper, approach. I was originally leaning towards a regulator to a 4-way manifold, but I wasn’t sure if the different carbonation levels would be a big of a deal. I think I might just do that at first and see if I want to revise it in the future. I don’t usually have too many high-carbonation beers, and knowing that letting the stouts rest for a minute or two to de-gas may be sufficient enough for me.

In my research, it looks like MFL fittings are recommended over regular barbed connections. Do you have any recommendations? Also, do you have any other recommendations/information regarding a kegging setup that I may be missing?

 

[Mtrhdltd]

My setup is pretty close to what you want. I have my tank outside the kegerator with a single body regulator. Inside I have a dual body secondary regulator, and a manifold before the secondary for soda (24 psi for me). This gives me 3 different pressures, but I seldom use the third. If you use trees to split instead of manifolds with check valves, I reccomend check valve gas disconnects. I use 3/16 bevlex with mfl fittings with 5/16 barbs. It takes some work to get hoses on the barbs, but I dont use clamps and have never had a line leak in almost 15 years (poppets and lids I have had leak). I recommend a tee outside the kegerator so you can use it to purge and clean kegs easier.

 

[Tyler.W]

I recommend a tee outside the kegerator so you can use it to purge and clean kegs easier.

What exactly do you mean by this? My CO2 tank will sit on the back of my fridge (there’s a bracket) so a tee in the back may not work great for me in terms of accessibility. Since I will have MFL threaded connections couldn’t I just shut the manifold off, unscrew one connection, and attach my “purging connection” when I needed to purge something?

 

[tracer bullet]

You can set it up however fits / is convenient. Try to get anything you adjust (pressure) or otherwise control (on / off) within easy viewing and reach. Sucks if you have to move a few kegs out of the way, sometimes including disconnecting them, to adjust a gas pressure.

As for flare / barb I've had good luck with both. if you do flare be sure to have a little nylon washer in it, not just metal to metal. If you do barb, I prefer oetiker clamp, and use 2 if I can fit them. It's overkill though. Oetikers, if you use them, need to be the right size and have the right crimper, FYI. Can be a small headache but normal hose clamps are probably OK too, I just favor the others for a tighter / more even clamp.

 

[Stonehenge360]

You are going to have fun with this project. I just finished my 20 gal keezer setup and built it into my workbench in the garage. I was able to just barely fit 4 5 gallon slimline torpedo kegs and a 10lb co2 bottle in the freezer.

Personally, I don’t think it is necessary to worry that much about the volumes. I was worried when I started also, but so far I have been able to find a good compromise at 33F and 11 psi or so. The reason I say don’t worry about it - if you look up my settings on any chart, it would say I’m pretty high on volumes...but I just dialed it in to my taste and went with it.

I do have a dual regulator right on the bottle. I would recommend that since it’s only $20 more than then single regulator. I have never done sparkling water, but if it does need 2x the carb, the dual reg would be an easy way to get that. The other benefit of the dual reg is it makes it slightly easier if some day you want to bottle out of the kegs using a counterflow contraption.

The carb side of my system is a 10 lb bottle (I recommend this since it’s not much more expensive and lasts twice as long) which goes to the dual regulator. One of the regulator out ports goes to a 4 way manifold and then each keg gets its own line. I used a basic manifold from amazon with shut offs on each line. I used basic red co2 line from amazon also, and everything is connected with barb fittings and very tight hose clamps. If you pay attention and are careful, the barbs are leak free.

on the liquid side, as I said I have 4 slimline torpedos side by side. If I wanted one at a different carb level I could use the second regulator, but I have only used that for purging kegs so far. All of my kegs have floating intake tubes in them. There are a lot of upsides and as far as I can tell, no downsides to the floating tubes. I highly recommend.

coming out of the kegs, I have 3/16 ultra flex line from amazon. I think 100’ was like $20 or something. This stuff is great. It is really flexible and when you put it on a 1/4” barb, you need to use a hairdryer to heat it up and it makes a Permanent connection. All of my liquid lines are 10’ long. This seems to give a steady pour without being too slow

I have my lines going into perlick 603ss faucets. In my opinion, you should wait to save up for these. They are incredible compared to the cheap ones out there.

for temp control, The freezer is plugged into an ink bird controller. I have the thermo probe taped to the side of a soda can sitting on the compressor shelf. This gives a good balance between temperature control and the freezer cycling too much.

lastly, I have a $20 120v computer fan inside the keezer zip tied to the regulator blowing up on the inside of the faucets. This keeps the inside of the keezer a more even temp, and it also keeps the faucets and lines inside cold so the first pour does not end up being all foam.

hope this helps! Sorry for the long list, I just wanted to save you some time

 

[Mtrhdltd]

What exactly do you mean by this? My CO2 tank will sit on the back of my fridge (there’s a bracket) so a tee in the back may not work great for me in terms of accessibility. Since I will have MFL threaded connections couldn’t I just shut the manifold off, unscrew one connection, and attach my “purging connection” when I needed to purge something?

You could disconnect fittings and move connections to purge and clean kegs, but you will probably get tired of this quickly. If you have a line with a gas disconnect outside of the kegerator it will make this easier and you wont have to open the kegerator as much, keeping inside temps more stable. I have another tank and regulator for this purpose, but that's more upfront cost.

 

[Tyler.W]

I just pulled the trigger on a single gauge regulator and a 4-way barbed manifold! AIH is having a small sale, so I figured I would start buying some gear for the setup now.

The carb side of my system is a 10 lb bottle (I recommend this since it’s not much more expensive and lasts twice as long)

I am tempted to get a 10lb, but my fridge has a very convenient and out of the way bracket on the back of the fridge that holds a 5lb perfectly...

I have my lines going into perlick 603ss faucets. In my opinion, you should wait to save up for these. They are incredible compared to the cheap ones out there.

I may someday add faucets, but at this point (and with the space and location of the fridge) I will probably just do picnic taps with a little faucet holder on the door of the fridge. I can add some kind of chalkboard taplist to the front of the fridge, with numbered hooks inside for ease.

lastly, I have a $20 120v computer fan inside the keezer zip tied to the regulator blowing up on the inside of the faucets. This keeps the inside of the keezer a more even temp, and it also keeps the faucets and lines inside cold so the first pour does not end up being all foam.

Since I plan to use picnic taps, would a fan be necessary/beneficial? I know it would distribute the air a bit, but I am not sure if it would be super important for my setup.

You could disconnect fittings and move connections to purge and clean kegs, but you will probably get tired of this quickly. If you have a line with a gas disconnect outside of the kegerator it will make this easier and you wont have to open the kegerator as much, keeping inside temps more stable.

Ah, I see. For this setup would I just add a tee right after the regulator to have an external line, and then send the other line into my fridge to the manifold?

 

[Stonehenge360]

Nothing wrong with 5lb bottles, especially since they are easier to swap at some places.

nothing wrong with picnic taps either. Upside is cost and simplicity, only real downside is having to open the door every time you want a beer, but that’s not a huge deal. You can always update to faucets later

I would still recommend some kind of internal circulation. Most keezers will have up to 10F difference between bottom and top without any air circulation. But Again, this can be added at a later date.

If your bottle and reg are outside the freezer, a tee with a good ball valve on it is a fine solution for external gas.

Sounds like you have a good plan for moving forward.

 

[Tyler.W]

Following up on this.

I am ordering the rest of the parts I need outside of the kegs and CO2 tank. My question is regarding line length. What would you recommend for gas line length? Right now I have 4ft/keg in my cart, but I am not sure if that will be too much or too little. As for the beer line, I have 7ft/keg based on 10psi @ 35ºF targeting 2.5 volumes of CO2. I have also added a tee and an extra 4ft of line to sit outside my keg for purging/cleaning kegs.

Also, is there a particular method I should use for cleaning beer lines after kicking the keg? I see some keg flushing kits for sale, but in my understanding you would just partially fill a keg with line cleaner and push it out. Is that correct?

 

[day_trippr]

Gas line length does not matter - as long as it reaches where it needs to go it's good.

As for cleaning, folks have all kinds of ways of cleaning lines, but most try to avoid using CO2 because of its cost. From hand-pumped "sprayers" adapted to accept a keg connector to pumped-recirculation. I use a pond pump to recirculate a standard BLC or LLC mix through a manifold that cleans all six lines, flow meters, disconnects and faucets in one shot...

Cheers!

 

[Stonehenge360]

For the co2 line, functionally it does not matter. Use as much as you need to reach everywhere. The co2 will happily flow as far as it needs to go.

for the beer line,7-10 ft per tap is probably perfect. I would suggest starting longer and then cutting shorter if you feel it is too slow. The worst that happens with long lines is a slow pour. The worst that happens with short lines is a foamy beer...it’s easier to shorten them as you get a feel For everything

I use BLC (beer line cleaner) but pbw works fine. I bought a little submersible pump and attached a male ball lock on it (same as on keg). That way I can put the blc in a bucket with the pump, attach the ball lock, and let it circulate while I do something else. Filling the keg with cleaner and pushing it out works just as well, the only downside is you are using a lot of co2 for the cleaning operation, but co2 is also cheap, so you can start simple and switch to a pump thing later on.

 

[Tyler.W]

Awesome, thanks for the input. Would I be able to use a brewing pump to do this as well, or is a separate pump better? I’m just thinking if I have a pump for brewing (which I want to get before long) then I might not need to get another piece of gear.

 

[Stonehenge360]

I don’t see why not. The only nice thing about the little submersible fish tank pumps is it’s one less hose to wrangle.

 

[day_trippr]

Many brewing mag-pumps have small teflon thrust washers against the impellers that get eaten up by caustic cleaners. I prefer a dedicated submersible rather than putting that much more "eatin' time" on my brew pumps

Cheers!

 

[Tyler.W]

Many brewing mag-pumps have small teflon thrust washers against the impellers that get eaten up by caustic cleaners. I prefer a dedicated submersible rather than putting that much more "eatin' time" on my brew pumps

Cheers!

Ah, makes sense. Thanks for the heads up!

 

[TeamGotOil]

What is the easiest and best way to connect a fan. And, any recommendations on types of fans?

 

[day_trippr]

Don't know about best or easiest, but I use 12VDC pc fans of various sizes inside my keezer:
- a 40mm driving my tower cooler
- two more 40mm driving my EVA Dry desiccants
- and a 120mm sitting on the hump blowing the length of the keezer.

I ran the 12VDC through the lid, but as one can get away with really thin twin-lead for this application (like 22 gauge) the skinny wire could be pinched between lid and cabinet without causing a major leak...

Cheers!

 

[Stonehenge360]

AC Infinity AXIAL 8038, Quiet Muffin Fan, 120V AC 80mm x 38mm Low Speed, UL-Certified for DIY Cooling Ventilation Exhaust Projects

If you search the above title, that’s the one I have. Any 12vdc fan will work also. I got that one because it is 120v so it plugs into the wall without needing a transformer

I also just zip tied it to my regulator. Any mounting position that lets it circulate air from bottom to top should work fine

 

[TeamGotOil]

Thanks guys!