Help me out w/ lagering

[aliu630]

I started making a 5 gal batch of a german pilsner and I'm just wondering if I'm going about it the right way. Right now, the beer is fermenting at 51 degrees for about 3 weeks now. On the white labs website says my yeast (WLP800) should be around 50-55. So I thought I was doing it right until I looked around the internet and I see people lagering in the 40's. Specifically, How to Brew - By John Palmer - When to Lager.

WTF! Most of the white labs lager yeast or maybe all say optimum fermentation is between 50-55.

My questions are...
1) After thinking about it a bit, is primary fermentation different from lagering?

2). Do I ferment at 51 and then drop it down to the 40's?

3). If i do a diacetyl rest, how high can I bring it? John Palmer says to bring it up to 55-60. Can I raise it up to the 70's?

4) If the beer is fermenting at 55, does raising it 60 really help get rid of the diacetyl?

 

[wildwest450]

Im no expert, but I know lagering is performed after fermentation, your fermentation temp sounds spot on.

 

[sause]

Yes comma lagering is different than fermentation. Lager is german for to store. You want to ferment in the low 50's then after primary fermentation has finished raise it up to about 60-65 for the diacetyl rest then drop it down to below 45 for as long as you want. And yes raising the temp does reduce diacetyl.

 

[Biermann]

I routinely let my lagers climb to room temps for a day or so for a diacetyl rest after all primary fermentation is essentially done. . .you may notice a few more bubbles coming out (like a reactivated ferment). This is the yeast eating up the diacetyl and breaking it down to EtOH. I then rack to secondary, and place the beer back in the lagerator, and gradually drop the temps about 2 deg/day until just above freezing (typically in the 30's). Then let lager. . .and don't be inpatient!! Depending on style, your lager may need to sit in the cold anywhere from a month to a year.

 

[TexLaw]

Like Biermann mentioned, lagering is best done just above freezing. I lager around 34F.


TL

 

[aliu630]

I used to think that Lagering was the same as making ale, but just at different temps, I didn't know there was a "lagering" stage after the fermentation. Thanks for the clarification.

For the diacetyl rest, is it ok to bring up to 70-75? I don't think I can set the temp to my refrigerator to 60-65...but room temp right now is around the low 70's. The dial for my fridge is almost at 0 and I'm thinking it will turn off if I try to tinker with it some more.

Man, it's hard to be patient waiting for this beer to get done, definitely a lot longer lead time than an ale.

 

[Biermann]

room temp is fine for the diacetyl rest.

 

[bwilly954]

Are these methods with the intension to keg or
Will you bottle after lagering?
Could I ferment in the 50s, rest at room temp for 48hrs, than bottle?
You would have to store bottles in room temp to get carbonation before you could
bring the temp down wouldn't you ??,
Can someone explain step by step bottle lagering method?
It Would be greatly appreciated..

 

[Yooper]

Are these methods with the intension to keg or
Will you bottle after lagering?
Could I ferment in the 50s, rest at room temp for 48hrs, than bottle?
You would have to store bottles in room temp to get carbonation before you could
bring the temp down wouldn't you ??,
Can someone explain step by step bottle lagering method?
It Would be greatly appreciated..

I now keg most of my beers, but I do bottle some of the lagers.

You could ferment until done, do the diacetyl rest, bottle, then allow it to carbonate, then lager in the bottle if you have room in the fridge for 50 bottles for 8 weeks or so.

Normally, I ferment at 50 degrees until near FG. If I'm doing a diacetyl rest, I raise the temperature then. After the diacetyl rest, I rack and slowly lower the temperature until I'm lagering the carboy at 34 degrees. I lager from 6-12 weeks (depending on what kind of beer it is- a higher OG beer is longer), then bottle or keg.

Since you want to lager in the bottle, I'd suggest doing a secondary after the diacetyl rest, to get a clearer beer before lagering.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

It seems many people have better results when they ferment at temps slightly lower than those recommended by the yeast mfrs. So even though the mfr. may recommend 50-55 F they'll still ferment at 46-48 F. I think that's why you're getting somewhat conflicting advice on the ferm temp.

I think you'll find there are many different ways people do their lagers and they all work to varying degrees. It's best to have some idea 'why' certain things are done. For lots of info on that check out Kaiser's Fermenting Lagers page.