Help me nail down an imperial porter recipe

[MaskdBagel]

Looking to brew up a nice big porter this weekend with a friend who's completely new to home brewing but a sage when it comes to good beer. The goal for the finished product is something ink black, super smooth, very lightly sweet, and appropriate to finish on cacao and/or coconut. A lot of the body will come from the lactose, so I'm planning to mash at 151 and try to get to 1.018 with US-05.

I've put this together with Mosher's "harsh zone" advice in mind. (https://byo.com/article/avoiding-harsh-zone/) I want dark and roasty, but I definitely don't want any acrid bitterness, charcoal, burnt coffee, etc. (I know the line between porter and stout is faint, but those characteristics belong in the conversation, I think, so I'm calling this a porter.) Wondering if pulling the Crystal 80 back a touch might be a good idea.

For hops, I know utilization goes down as OG goes up, and this will be around 1.080, so I'm estimating 15 AAU for 60 minutes. Since it's a long boil, I'll just hit 15 with whatever I have on hand, probably Nugget or Centennial. Too much for the malt to be the main player?

Here's the grist. Would love your thoughts. Simplify?

Ingredient Volume (oz) Percentage
Two-row 160 60.61%
Munich 10L 32 12.12%
Flaked Barley 16 6.06%
Crystal 80 16 6.06%
Cara Pils Dextrine 8 3.03%
Flaked Oats 16 6.06%
Carafa II 412L 4 1.52%
Roasted Barley 300L 4 1.52%
Chocolate Malt 425L 4 1.52%
Midnight Wheat 4 1.52%
Lactose 8 ---

Thanks!!

 

[Northern_Brewer]

super smooth, very lightly sweet.... A lot of the body will come from the lactose, so I'm planning to mash at 151 and try to get to 1.018 with US-05.

What's the logic in using a yeast with decent attenuation, and then using a bunch of adjuncts to get back some body and sweetness? Why not just use a less attenuating yeast and let it (not) do the work for you?

 

[MaskdBagel]

What's the logic in using a yeast with decent attenuation, and then using a bunch of adjuncts to get back some body and sweetness? Why not just use a less attenuating yeast and let it (not) do the work for you?

My inexperience with yeast, mainly. If it attenuates fairly thoroughly and I can precisely measure the lactose and flaked grain going in, it just gives me more confidence. That was the logic, anyway, to answer your question. Open to ideas on yeast, though, for sure! It's a great line of thought!

 

[schokie]

Those are a lot of specialty grains. What are your reason behind each of them?

I'd go with the 2-row, 1x crystal type, and the roasted barley. Try 4-5% roasted and you can probably get by without the crystal 120. Skip the Munich and use just the crystal 80 instead. MAYBE add one more type of grain, but keep it under 1% so it doesn't really do anything.

A common mistake I made early on was a horribly complicated grain bill. While it was lots of fun to create the recipe, it just muddled the malt profile and didn't add anything. Once I cut the grain bill types in half it made recipe creation easier and gave me a cleaner malt profile which let me actually enjoy the subtle malt flavors.

Second the vote for a lower attenuating. I'm afraid that the lactose will make it too sweet and creamy. Great in a milk stout, but not so much for an imperial porter. Use some black patent instead and trust your yeast.

 

[secondbase]

I'd nix the lactose, and just favor a higher mash temp with all those adjuncts. You've got a lot of different roasted malts in there. Unless you have a specific reason (flavor wise) for adding each of them, I'd drop at least one. I'd drop the midnight wheat. If it were me I would also use 60L crystal instead of the carapils in a beer like this.

 

[Northern_Brewer]

My inexperience with yeast, mainly. If it attenuates fairly thoroughly and I can precisely measure the lactose and flaked grain going in, it just gives me more confidence. That was the logic, anyway, to answer your question. Open to ideas on yeast, though, for sure! It's a great line of thought!

Ah sorry, I meant to get back to you before the weekend - so what did you do in the end?

I would have said - use a British yeast, all the London ones would have seen a porter or two in their past. Don't be afraid of a less attenuating yeast, they usually come with flavours which make your beer more interesting and are very much part of British beer styles.

+1 on simplifying your grain bill, historically porters were mostly pale malt with just a bit of amber, brown and black (and often just 2 of those 3).

 

[hercher]

You have both flaked barley and flaked oats. They are largely duplicative. I would only use one (and probably neither). I would also get rid of the Midnight Wheat and Carafa II. I also am not a huge fan of the lactose in a porter. If you are particularly fond of S-05, simply mash at a higher temperature (ca 156 F). Never be afraid to allow your brewing skills to be a substitute for ingredients. It's cheaper, more satisfying, and usually produces a better beverage.