Help me! My PA is really sour - weird hop flavor w/ Amarillo & Citra?

[MNDan]

Hi all - I'm kinda stumped with what is wrong with my latest Pale Ale. It came out really sour! Grapefruity for sure, which I know is a characteristic of both Amarillo and Citra hops, but it's really over the top.

My first thought was that the 2 ounces of 14% Citra hops soaked for half an hour at 190F REALLY brought the Citra flavor to the beer, but it doesn't seem like too much after seeing other's recipes? Then I started thinking about a lacto infection since I brew in my garage where I also mill my grain (though I mill my grain outside my garage), and that combined with a longer than usual ferment time before kegging (4 weeks) introduced some sourness. In that case I would have expected to see the attunuation creep into the 80's, though.

So not really sure, though this is a hop combo I haven't used much before. Any thoughts? Maybe it just needs more time?


Below is the recipe with some notes at the end:

Recipe Specifications
--------------------------
Boil Size: 14.35 gal
Post Boil Volume: 12.48 gal
Batch Size (fermenter): 12.00 gal
Bottling Volume: 12.00 gal
Estimated OG: 1.054 SG
Estimated Color: 7.5 SRM
Estimated IBU: 36.1 IBUs
Brewhouse Efficiency: 75.00 %
Est Mash Efficiency: 75.0 %
Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Ingredients:
------------
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
15.00 g Gypsum (Calcium Sulfate) (Mash 60.0 mins Water Agent 1 -
10.00 g Calcium Chloride (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 2 -
4.00 ml Lactic Acid (Mash 60.0 mins) Water Agent 3 -
21 lbs Pale Malt (2 Row) US (2.0 SRM) Grain 4 87.5 %
1 lbs Biscuit Malt (23.0 SRM) Grain 5 4.2 %
1 lbs Cara-Pils/Dextrine (2.0 SRM) Grain 6 4.2 %
1 lbs Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (60.0 SRM) Grain 7 4.2 %
1.00 oz Amarillo Gold [10.10 %] - Boil 90.0 min Hop 8 17.8 IBUs
1.00 oz Centennial [11.10 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 9 18.3 IBUs
2.00 oz Citra [14.10 %] - Aroma Steep 0.0 min Hop 10 0.0 IBUs
1.0 pkg Safale American (DCL/Fermentis #US-05) Yeast 11 -


Mash Schedule: My Mash
Total Grain Weight: 24 lbs
----------------------------
Name Description Step Temperat Step Time
Step Add 31.99 qt of water at 166.6 F 152.0 F 40 min

Sparge: Fly sparge with 9.23 gal water at 168.0 F

Notes:
------
Mash was at 153
Flame out Citra hops added at 190F - 30 minute soak before chilling
Wort fermented at 68F in temp-controlled fridge and attunuated to 79.3%
Sat in primary for 4 weeks - longer than usual

thanks for any thoughts you might have!

dan

 

[day_trippr]

If you have enjoyed Citra hopped brews, 2 ounces in a 12 gallon batch is actually pretty tame. I use that much in a 5 gallon batch plus 2 more ounces dry hopped.

1 packet of US-05 for 12 gallons of near 60 point wort seems really light on the pitch. Not sure what that might portend but it probably didn't help the flavor profile...

Cheers!

 

[MNDan]

I pitched two packets - my recipe has it listed wrong. My OG was 1.045, so pitch should have been fine. I'm going to try to find a beer judge in the Minneapolis area to give it a taste.

 

[sfgoat]

Well your water additions would bring out the hops more. Are you sure you had your adjustment right. I don't know what your water is like but in my water those adjustments would make it way to acidic.

 

[Malric]

Are the Amarillo from the current harvest? I heard that the latest harvest has a heavy cat pee aroma.

 

[Homercidal]

I haven't noticed Citra having a huge grapefruit or tart flavor. More tropical fruit IMO with a citrusy flavor in the background.

It might be an infection, but I'm wondering about your water too. Seems like a lot of additions unless your water is very alkaline.

 

[MNDan]

I use RO water as my base, and the EZ water spreadsheet calculator says it should be pretty spot on with the calcium and lactic acid additions since I am not using much for crystal malt.

I'm guessing the Amarillo's I have are to blame. I made an IPA last year with the same hops that was weird, though I had attributed it to some homegrown hops I added instead. Hopefully it will mellow, which might tell me that it isn't some weird lacto bacteria thing going on?

 

[pstrohs]

I get a lot of grapefruit characteristics out of Citra hop. I brewed an all Citra APA and perceived nothing but grapefruit for the 1st week; however, this died down pretty quickly to become an excellent beer.

 

[Chadwick]

Hops vary from season to season. I forget which hops it was off-hand, but there was a few varieties that turned out really below par for flavor in the last few seasons.

There are only a handful of varieties of which I've been using in the last year. Citra isn't one of them. I did use a bit of Amarillo for dry hopping a little last year, but not much.

If it means anything, and it may mean nothing, several popular brews that rely on Citra that I have tried recently has left me rather unimpressed to say the least. Was it a bad year for Citra recently? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. With all of this "climate change" going on we can about bank on hop crops getting weird from time to time. So far my standby hops have been ok; Centennial, Chinook, Cascade, Columbus. My precious 4-C's. I use other hops too, but those 4 are in 90% of the beers I make. I just like them.

 

[MNDan]

I just got my new probe for my pH meter, and finished soaking and calibrating it. I measured the pH of the beer in question - it's around 3.75, which is obviously very low. After re-running my numbers in the water spreadsheet 3.0 it looks like the 4 ml of lactic acid were unnecessary, though that only accounts for around a .15 drop in pH. Perhaps I am missing some reaction that occurs to drop the pH further via the minerals combined with the acid?

I'm still not ruling out a small lacto infection since it was in primary for 4 weeks at 68F, but I bet if I make this same recipe with new Amarillo's and no lactic acid it will be a different beast. I just have to get up the confidence to do it.