Help me figure this out - Crooked Stave St. Bretta Starter has odd ongoings...

[Wes440]

So I began a starter of some Crooked Stave St. Bretta dregs, and the outcome so far is just weird.

I started this one on 11/7/2014, and so far it hasn't gone down in gravity from the original 1.036, but it has:

1. Taken on the consistency of very stringy, ropey saliva.
2. Has a distinct odor of yogurt-like sourness. (good thing?)
3. Has no airlock activity whatsoever.

I understand that this beer is labeled as 100% Brettanomyces, but it's also been aged in CS oak foeders - so it also may contain Lacto and Pedio.
Any ideas from those who have experience with starters from this beer, another Crooked Stave beer, or anything similar? I'm honestly stumped as
to what may be happening to this starter.

Any enlightening information is greatly appreciated!

 

[robotinc]

If it's stringy and smells like yogurt that sounds like pedio

 

[WI_Wino]

How are you measuring the gravity? Refractometers are not accurate after fermentation has begun. The alcohol will skew the result and read higher.

 

[finsfan]

If it's stringy and smells like yogurt that sounds like pedio

Exactly this. Pedio can go through a "sick" phase that makes the beer (or starter in this case) very viscous. It would pour almost like a syrup. I normally do not make a starter when using crooked stave dregs and just pitch a bottle or two into a gallon batch jug of something already fermented with sacch. Then I would just pitch the entirely slurry into a 5 gallon batch if the small jug turned out good. I have never had that issue before with CS so I am not sure what to tell you. The sick phase normally goes away after time, but that time varies greatly. Try keeping it in a warmer environment, that is said to speed up the sick phase.

 

[TNGabe]

How are you measuring the gravity? Refractometers are not accurate after fermentation has begun. The alcohol will skew the result and read higher.

A hydrometer won't be accurate in ropy beer either.

OP, pretty cool that starter got ropy so fast. I've added CS dregs to a few beers now and always thought it was an agressive lacto, but of course pedio could explain the dactyl issues he's occasionally had. I don't think ropiness and diacetyl exclude lacto though. There are lots of kinds of lactic bacteria and I think some exhibit similar characteristics to pedio.

 

[Wes440]

I'm using a refractometer to measure gravity, and also beersmith to adjust readings of fermenting wort. It's very ropey, and I thought that may be a reason for off readings. I'm going to taste it tonight, and I'll post an update on that - probably should have done that before the post.

I'm really curious if there's any brett in this starter at all, as I feel that if there were, I would have seen some type of activity in the airlock. I guess it could be very slow to act, due to what other bugs are active in there...

I appreciate all the input on how one might pitch this into a beer... I'm guessing it's probably best pitched with, or after sacch.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Bacteria multiply way faster then yeast, especially brett. That's why we usually advise 1 week minimum steps on brett starters. Everything sounds normal here. And, yes, you'll have pedio in there. Very aggressive pedio

 

[Wes440]

Ok so I just took a taste test, and my fiancee also tried a taste and Wow, sour!
A very sharp sour taste, more lactic acid than acetic sourness - and definitely very
similar to the sourness of St. Bretta, which to me is quite tart and citrusy sour.

This came from the St. Bretta Autumn, blood orange batch #4.

So I suppose that's a good thing! I think I may add this to a Belgian Wit or Pale Ale, as I
just ordered some ECY09 Belgian Abbaye - I've read some great things about that yeast.
Would there be an advantage either way on pitching it with or after the Sacch?

 

[inda_bebe]

how long ago did you brew that?

 

[Wes440]

I started the St. Bretta starter on 11/7.

Yesterday I picked up a bottle of CS Surette and after chilling, slowly poured off 80% of the beer into my glass, added some 1.040 wort back into the bottle and stuck a #2 stopper and airlock into that!

We shall see what happens there! I'm thinking of just doing this for every sour I get, to start a nice little bug collection! Fun for a side project!

 

[TNGabe]

80%? Quit wasting beer! Pour til you get to the chunky bits.

 

[Wes440]

I may have left a bit too much beer behind, just wanted to make sure it kicked off nice and quick - it's pushing up gas already, I've vented it once as of now, but should probably just leave it sealed.

I'm not sure what's viable in the Consecration, as it's a 10% abv beer.

 

[finsfan]

I may have left a bit too much beer behind, just wanted to make sure it kicked off nice and quick - it's pushing up gas already, I've vented it once as of now, but should probably just leave it sealed.

I'm not sure what's viable in the Consecration, as it's a 10% abv beer.

The brett should still be viable in the RR if anything.

 

[Wes440]

Well time for an update!

The St. Bretta dregs that I had going were not taking the gravity down at all, so I pitched some Orval dregs to move it along, and it still hasn't done much of anything...

The Surette bottle of dregs I added wort to started off immediately and is still ticking away, started that on 11/27/14 and haven't tested the gravity yet...

My gallon of Belgian Golden strong + Sanctification dregs is forming a nice pellicle on top, and is down to 1.010 as of 12/1/14, where the original beer is in secondary still at 1.014..


Also brewed up 6.5 gallons of an English ESB using ECY17 Burton Union, took a gallon from that and pitched Orval dregs along with the Sacch on 12/6/14. Found a liquor store here in Denver selling bottles of Crooked Stave St. Bretta and Surette Autumn for only $3 per bottle! So I happily grabbed 3 of each, drank a St. Bretta tonight and pitched the dregs into the gallon of ESB+Orval... So the darker gallon is an ESB+Orval+St. Bretta. No telling what that's going to taste like, but the Burton Union ESB is tasting great so far! Lot's of nice esters from that yeast.

I went ahead and grabbed another gallon carboy for the next batch; a Belgian Pale Ale that I'll use ECY09 Belgian Abbaye with, along with the Surette culture that's brewing and something else...

Cheers!

My guest room closet - where the beer lives:

 

[mystikhybrid]

I used 4 bottles of St Bretta Summer to grow up a good cell count and pitched into a 5 gallon batch, fermented from 1.048 to 1.006. It smelled and tastes very much like St bretta. I collected 3 mason jars of washed slurry, and used on of them to ferment the next batch, winter blueberry sour.

 

[Wes440]

I used 4 bottles of St Bretta Summer to grow up a good cell count and pitched into a 5 gallon batch, fermented from 1.048 to 1.006. It smelled and tastes very much like St bretta. I collected 3 mason jars of washed slurry, and used on of them to ferment the next batch, winter blueberry sour.

Nice! It's supposedly a great sour to pitch, it's ticking away in my 1 gallon carboy of esb sour. The Burton yeast slightly under-attenuated so there's plenty of sugar left for it.

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Heckuva Great Divide fan there

 

[Wes440]

Yes it's one of my personal favorites, and the bottles are great to reuse for homebrew - plus the labels come off nicely after a soak in oxyclean.

Most of the time "the big show" 12 pack will have 3 each of yeti, hercules, hades, and claymore. Pretty nice 12 pack!

 

[MileHighBrewer]

Watch the big show packs in a few weeks. ..orabelle and espresso yeti will be showing up soon

 

[Wes440]

Watch the big show packs in a few weeks. ..orabelle and espresso yeti will be showing up soon

Nice! I have yet to try orabelle, and I'll drink any yeti that comes within reach but the espresso is a wonderful beer too!

 

[Wes440]

Watch the big show packs in a few weeks. ..orabelle and espresso yeti will be showing up soon

Nice! I have yet to try orabelle, and I'll drink any yeti that comes within reach but the espresso is a wonderful beer too!