Help getting FG below 1.020

[Uncle Argyle]

Hi everyone,

I have done my fourth all-grain and I am having trouble getting my FG down below 1.020 on every one of my batches…OG on the last one was 1.055. I am thinking that it is either my water or my mash temps.

My latest was EdWort’s Haus Pale Ale. I followed the recipe exactly.
8lbs 2 row
2lbs Vienna
.5 Crystal 20ml
Nottingham dry yeast
2 ounces of cascade hops.

Some details on my process:
I mashed in a 5gal cooler for 60 mins. @ 150. I pre-heat a gallon of water to 180 and dump it in the MLT, then after a few moments I add some grains and more water at 170 degrees until I have filled the MLT with 13.10 quarts of water. The temp at this point is 150 degrees which holds for the entire 60 minutes. (I stir at 15 and 30 mins )

The MLT thermometer is one that I am using from the Turkey fryer. I drilled a small hole in the top of the MLT and drop it through the top. I checked this thermometer against a another that I use for heating the Mash and sparge water, it seems to be almost identical.

I vorlauf 2 to 3 quarts and then fill my kettle with the initial runnings. Then I add 3 gallons for the batch sparge @ 170 degrees. Wait 10 mins, vorlauf and collect the runnings and repeat with another 2.5 gallons.

After I collect the wort from each running, I immediately start to boil it (I read I was supposed to do this and not let it sit while you wait for the batch sparge runnings).

I have not done an Iodine test…I will next batch though.

I boil for an hour and then cool in about 15 minutes with an Immersion Chiller.

I pour through a sanitized strainer into the fermenter (This and a little shaking is the only oxygenation that I do).

I add the yeast (dry yeast re-hydrated for 15 mins) and let it sit at about 65 to 70 for a week...bubbling had long since stopped. This last time I added another pack of yeast after a week just to see if I could restart fermentation…no such luck.

My water is softened. The ph seems high @ 7.2 or so…other than that I don’t know much about it’s contents. Tastes OK.

Sorry for the long post, but I wanted some input before I retry Ed’s recipe.
The changes I am considering for the next session will probably be:

1. Use a digital probe thermometer for the MLT (suggestions?)
2. Use PH 5.2
3. Brewing salts
4. Spring Water
5. Oxygenation of some kind

Any thoughts or recommendations would be appreciated.

Thanks.

Uncle Argyle

 

[mew]

I've heard those turkey fryer therms are really bad. I bet that's your problem.

edit: I know you said you checked, but I'd still be skeptical.

When taking temp. reading I think it's best to stir things up and get your thermometer into the middle of the mash. Top area that you are measuring from is probably cooler than the rest of the mash.

 

[Uncle Argyle]

I think you're probably right about the thermometer.

What does everyone use to measure their MLT temp? I'd like to get something permanent and not have to remove the lid and drop in a thermometer every 15 mins or so.

Thanks Mew!

 

[srm775]

I don't think it's your temps., at least your mash temps since they seem fine. Your ferment temps seem ok. To salvage this batch, try adding beano. In the future, you should oxygenate more. I throw an airstone with an aquarium pump on for at least 5-10 min.

 

[BierMuncher]

I think you're probably right about the thermometer.

What does everyone use to measure their MLT temp? I'd like to get something permanent and not have to remove the lid and drop in a thermometer every 15 mins or so.

Thanks Mew!

Striking with 180 degree water sure sounds too high to me to get 10 pounds of grain to 150. I’d be more inclined to strike at around 164-168.

This is what I use. I drilled a hole in my tun lid to insert the probe:

 

[Uncle Argyle]

srm775...What is beano and how does it reduce the gravity? Does it impart any flavors or side effects?

BierMuncher...I am trying to get to 150 and this process seems to get me there (according to this thermometer anyway)...but I still a have a feeling that my mash temps are off and the thermometer is the culprit. Any issue with getting the probe line wet? Where did you get that thermometer?

Edit...I should mention that I am using 2 different thermometers one for the strike/sparge measurements and the other for the MLT...probably not a smart move.

 

[Donasay]

srm775...What is beano and how does it reduce the gravity? Does it impart any flavors or side effects?

BierMuncher...I am trying to get to 150 and this process seems to get me there (according to this thermometer anyway)...but I still a have a feeling that my mash temps are off and the thermometer is the culprit. Any issue with getting the probe line wet? Where did you get that thermometer?

Edit...I should mention that I am using 2 different thermometers one for the strike/sparge measurements and the other for the MLT...probably not a smart move.

Beano is an enzyme that breaks down complex carbohydrates into simple sugars, people take beano, so they don't fart. The bacteria that live in your digestive tract can break down these complex carbs and produce stinky gas as a biproduct, if you eat beano along with the food it breaks down the complex carbohydrates before the bacteria in your intestines get to them.

If you drop beano in beer, it breaks down the complex carbohydrates that were extracted during the mash, as a result of incomplete enzyme activity. The complex carbs are broken down into fermentable sugars, which your yeast turns into alcohol. The only problem is a decrease in mouthfeel, the beers do come out exceptionally light though. I did an IPA that was supposed to be about 5.5% abv after adding beano I got the FG down to 1.09 and added almost an extra percent of alcohol.

 

[Uncle Argyle]

Excellent, thanks for that! One of the issues with the high FG was that I felt the mouth feel was a little heavier than it should have been.

I think I might try this and see what happens.

 

[Drunkensatyr]

Something else to consider, You say you start with 180 water then add some grains and keep doing this in decreasing temps....How long does this process take? I wonder if you are essentially mashing out before you have even started mashing. If the temp is too high up front for too long you will halt enzymatic action IIRC.

 

[Uncle Argyle]

After I start adding grains, it is all less than a minute. I am adding the grains and remainder of the water in a very short period of time. Once the temp drops, would activity not resume?

 

[Drunkensatyr]

As long as you don't hold the high temp, then yes. Just wasn't sure if you were pouring it together, bringing more water up to temp, adding more grain, bringing more water....... If it is under a few minutes I don't see that it would be a problem.

 

[raceskier]

My Tru Temp thermometer reads about 4 deg F low (compared to a certified one) at mashing temps. You could be mashing quite a bit higher than you think, leaving a lot more unfermentables.

 

[user 14523]

My Tru Temp thermometer reads about 4 deg F low (compared to a certified one) at mashing temps. You could be mashing quite a bit higher than you think, leaving a lot more unfermentables.

This gets my vote. High mash temperature.

 

[Uncle Argyle]

Looks like I need to invest in a new thermometer. .

Thanks for all the advice, I'm going to give it another go this weekend!

 

[Got Trub?]

Looks like I need to invest in a new thermometer. .

Thanks for all the advice, I'm going to give it another go this weekend!

Save your money and just calibrate your thermometer: ice water should read 32, boiling water at sea level should read 212 and then compensate. Also remember that the mash temps given for recipes work for that brewer and their system with the grain they had. You may have to tweak your mash temp to get the FG where you want it.

GT

 

[photogscott]

I'd like to get something permanent and not have to remove the lid and drop in a thermometer every 15 mins or so.

Thanks Mew!

If you're using an insulated cooler there's no need to constantly check the temp. Once you hit your target temp close the lid and forget about it. Give the mash a stir a couple of time during your 60 min. Besides, any small drop in temp can only make it more fermentable not less

 

[Uncle Argyle]

Bought a digital thermometer similar to BierMuncher's. Calibrated in ice water and boiling water...dead on. At the same time I calibrated my old thermometer and they were about 10 degrees too low (meaning I was mashing too high).

I took my FG of Edwort's Haus Pale Ale that I just brewed on Saturday and I am at 1.011 !!

Thanks to all, I am a very happy brewer!

 

[Waldo]

Thermometers can be a pain, I use one thermometer and treat it like it was made of egg shell. Its dead on at boiling and off at freezing, I've found that most can't be trusted in the temp ranges we use so you really have to adjust your mash temps through a bit of trial and error to get the results you want. Thats the reason for using one thermometer and being very careful with it, I know just what temps I need to get the desired results with that thermometer. I do have a backup that I have adjusted to match my main thermometer.

Also using Beano can take a beer that is just a little to sweet or thick but still very drinkable and turn it into an undrinkable mess so becareful with the stuff.