Help fix alcohol taste in last two brews.

[cank]

My last two AG batches have had a slight alcohol taste.
First batch was a Kalamazoo brown kit from AustinHS. second was an IPA with Amarillo and Perle. This was the third time for this recipe and the other two were AWESOME. With this batch I forgot the Perle in the box and on brew day they were slightly brown. In hindsight I should have just used more Amarillo and made a SMaSH but...

These were also the first time I used my new HERMS system in the HLT. I have a 10gal round cooler as MLT.
I mashed in around 148 for 30 min. Then vorlauf a few pints but wasn't sure if this was enough. How clear should the runnings be? I have a jaybird false bottom and stand.
When I started recirculating through HERMS coil I raised temp in HLT to 155 for the rest of the hour.
Drained first runnings to BK raised temp to 165 for 20 min
Collected 7.5 gal
This was my first time using my bottom drain Keggle with a jaybird hinged false bottom with level 3 stand also. It got most of the hops.

I also tried to cool using my HERMS coil by putting cold water in the HLT and recirculating.

US-05 yeast
This was also my first two times to use my fermentation chamber that uses one of those small 2 CF fridges and a Johnson digital controller. Probe was taped to fermenting bucket and was reading 68 (which is the temp I usually use for US-05)

When cooling, is it bad to recirculate back into the hot BK? Should it go straight into a fermenter? In other words is it bad for partially cooled wort to mix back in with 200 deg wort? What creates a better hot break? With a bottom drain I'm sure a lot of that material is transferred to the fermenter, so is that ok?

So the first were:
HEMS coil to recirculate
Old hops (for one batch)
BK with Bottom Drain
Cooling with HERMS
Fermentation chamber
Edit;
New base malt
My own mm2 mill
Two tap tower


I want to brew again on Wednesday but can't figure out what or all I need to fix.

Oh yeah. I forgot for my IPA I used my MM2 for the first time and a new base malt (Muntons pale malt Pearl blend)
My gap was set at .054 I have since changed this to .034 (about credit card thickness) for my next brew. And I installed my new Two Tap tower, so now I have two poor beers on tap.

 

[tagz]

If it's an alcohol flavor the first places to look are your pitch rate, your fermentation temp, and your FG.

 

[IslandLizard]

+1 ^

Can you post your OG and FG notes of your 3 batches? Maybe you're experiencing higher efficiency and thus higher alcohol levels in the last one?

Are you sure it's alcohol and nothing else that tastes weird? As long as your ferm temps were controlled, it can't really point back to fusel alcohols. Double check your actual fermentor chamber's temps.

You made quite a few changes, so it can be harder to track the cause. Now bad hops can leave a bad taste...

 

[cank]

Brown ale OG 1.050-FG 1.002
IPA OG 1.052- FG 1.007

First time I brewed the IPA I had an OG of 1.05 and a FG of 1.001
And I just used BK to heat strike water, I used an immersion chiller, and I fermented in the garage where temp varied from 65-70
I have always just used 1 pack of US-05 without rehydrating.

It could be just a bad taste?? But they both have a slight hot finish that kinda lingers on you tongue. I'm not the best at describing flavors, but I just know this IPA doesn't have the fresh, bright, crisp, clean citrusy aroma, taste or finish that the first two had.

I'm drinking the new batch now and it just tastes... stale? So I guess that's the hops, and perhaps the higher bittering of the other batches masked the alcohol notes?

So I've read some people start fermenting lower, 62-65 and towards the end raise temps to 68-70. Could this help?

I think you're right, I've changed too much to figure out these batches. I hope I'm at a point where I'm not changing too much in the future.

What are your thoughts on chilling and recirculating the cooled wort back into the BK?

 

[kiblerjd]

I'm not an expert in this arena but I can share my recent brewing experiences and see if they help.

You FG's seem low to me and the 1.001 seems crazy low. That basically translates into very low sweetness which means you are more likely to taste the alcohol than the malt. I guess another way to say that is the alcohol will be more predominate because it is a "drier" beer.

I brewed an IPA several months ago and the FG came out to be like 1.008 and I would describe that beer just like you are describing yours. I still really enjoyed it but I wish it had a tiny bit more sweetness. On that brew day I undershot my strike temp and ended up at 153F vice 155F. With a +/- 2F error in the thermometer that means I could have really been at 151F. I have read that the lower mash temps can lead to lower FG's because the sugars are more fermentable.

On my next batch I shot for like 155F during the mash and I think it settled between 155-156F. The results were the best beer I ever made and I nailed the FG which was supposed to be 1.012.

So anyway this may just be something to look at. I only do single step infusions and I know very little about multiple step mashing but I think that 30minutes your are spending at 148 may be your culprit. I thought if you were going to do that initial rest you did it way lower.

Hope this helps.

 

[tagz]

+1 I think that's pretty good advice. Your FGs seem pretty low, leaving a thin beer and presumably a sharper alcohol edge. I would mash higher on the next batch and see if that helps.

 

[Demus]

Sounds like you may have an inaccurate thermometer. Let's say it's reading 5 degrees high. You'd be mashing at 143, then stepping to 150. This would definitely result in a more fermentable wort and drier beer. As for tasting the alcohol, everyone's flavor threshold is different. I agree that it doesn't sound like fusels, but it can't hurt to start you ferments a little cooler. Perhaps the thermometer you're using during fermentation is inaccurate in the other direction and you are fermenting warmer than you think. With temperature being so critical to brewing, it's wise to invest in a lab calibrated digital thermometer. I got mine at VWR.com for about $50. Worth every penny...

 

[Demus]

By the way, I always recirculate while chilling and haven't had any issues. I recirculate until the whole batch is down to about 80 degrees then run it off into the fermenter. This usually gets me about 60-65 degree wort for immediate pitching....

 

[IslandLizard]

Your measured FGs are ridiculously low. It even takes effort to get saisons that low. Calibrate your hydrometer(s) as well as your thermometers.

Even mashing at 148 will not give you these low results. Most of the sugars from your crystal malts are unfermentable for Saccharomyces. If the measuring equipment is calibrated and deemed OK, you may have an infection lurking somewhere.

Did you add a few pounds of sugar to your wort or beer? That would explain low FGs plus the (strong) alcohol burn...

 

[cank]

I have thought that my hydrometer was off because they have been finishing that low but I haven't checked it since I bought it. I just got a refractometer to check my pre and post boil gravity so I'll check it against that too.

This time I will double check all my temperatures and try to take good notes.

Maybe I can nail this down and get my process dialed in. I was going to try and fly sparge this next batch but I think I'll just do another batch sparge and see if my results are better first before I move on.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[tagz]

I'd suggest doing the boil/ice water test to check your thermometer. I had one that I found to be 5-6* off at boiling.

 

[cluckk]

Brown ale OG 1.050-FG 1.002
IPA OG 1.052- FG 1.007

First time I brewed the IPA I had an OG of 1.05 and a FG of 1.001
And I just used BK to heat strike water, I used an immersion chiller, and I fermented in the garage where temp varied from 65-70
I have always just used 1 pack of US-05 without rehydrating.

It could be just a bad taste?? But they both have a slight hot finish that kinda lingers on you tongue. I'm not the best at describing flavors, but I just know this IPA doesn't have the fresh, bright, crisp, clean citrusy aroma, taste or finish that the first two had.

I'm drinking the new batch now and it just tastes... stale? So I guess that's the hops, and perhaps the higher bittering of the other batches masked the alcohol notes?

So I've read some people start fermenting lower, 62-65 and towards the end raise temps to 68-70. Could this help?

I think you're right, I've changed too much to figure out these batches. I hope I'm at a point where I'm not changing too much in the future.

What are your thoughts on chilling and recirculating the cooled wort back into the BK?

Keep in mind that the yeast produce heat. If it is 70 in your garage at one point it could be 75 plus in your wort. High temps can cause fusel alcohols which are harsh.

Another cause of fusels can be stressed underpitched yeast. Did you make a starter?

 

[cank]

Did not make a starter for any of them.

Is there any way to really gauge the temp of the fermentation other than putting a thermowell inside the fermenter?

I guess I've seen examples of putting the probe in a separate glass of water and taping the probe with some insulation covering it to the fermenter.
But none of these can tell how warm it really is inside it.

 

[Demus]

The temperature difference between the center of the fermenter and the outside edge is negligible, so the plastic fermentation strips are actually pretty accurate as long as you calibrate them. To calibrate, use a known calibrated thermometer, fill your fermenter with water, and check the difference. Mine are accurate at the first color observed on the strip.
If you are using cheap glass bulb type thermometers, that could be your problem. Even calibrating them using boiling water/ice water bath method does NOT ensure they are accurate at mash temperatures. Don't trust temperature reading to a $5 pos. Get a lab calibrated unit so you know for sure as you dial everything in. Otherwise this is all just a big guessing game...

 

[tagz]

Did not make a starter for any of them.

Is there any way to really gauge the temp of the fermentation other than putting a thermowell inside the fermenter?

I guess I've seen examples of putting the probe in a separate glass of water and taping the probe with some insulation covering it to the fermenter.
But none of these can tell how warm it really is inside it.

Taping the probe to the side with some insulation over the top is your best bet. But I think the mash temp and no-starter are likely your biggest factors. Even at 1.050, depending on the date on the pack, you might be under pitching. Making a starter ensures a healthy sized pitch. There are lots of calculators online you can check out.. Brewers friend is one.