Help designing an extract version of grapefruit honey ale

[puyol_hollandaise]

Hi all - I saw that there were a few other posts on the concept of going from all grain >>> extract but was hoping to understand that process a bit more so forgive me if I dive into the details here with this being my first post

I original submitted this post on BeerSmith's forums but sadly have not had a single reply in over a month
The content of the original post is geared towards using BeerSmiths convert feature so I'll try to summarize it here (but I'll include the link to the post as well)
http://www.beersmith.com/forum/index.php/topic,18524.0.html

Essentially I wish to convert a brooklyn brew shop recipe from all grain to extract (or is this considered partial mash if I'm steeping grains? I still get confused on that)

Grapefruit Honey Ale (allgrain) - original recipe modified from Brooklyn Brew shop to enter on Beer Smith

• 6 lbs 12 oz of pale malt (2) row UK
• 12 oz Torrified wheat
• 8 oz Caramel/Crystal malt - 10L
• 8 oz Caramel/Crystal malt - 20L
• 8 oz Victory Malt
• 1 pound candi sugar clear
• 1 oz amarillo 9.2%
• 0.5 oz columbus (tomahawk) 14%
• 1 pkg safale english ale yeast (S-04)
• 1 pound honey

---------------------
Extract version (after beersmith convert and tweaking recipe with the stuff I found at my local homebrew shop)

• 1 lbs DME Wheat Bavarian (Briess) --- see 3) below
  
• 6 lbs 9.6 oz LME Golden Light (Briess) (4.0 SRM) --- see 2) below

Steeping grains

• 8 oz Caramel/Crystal malt - 10L
• 8 oz Caramel/Crystal malt - 20L
• 8 oz Victory Malt

see 1)*** I noticed that beersmith significantly reduced the volumes of my specialty malts (by like 80%) so I set them back to the originals

other stuff

• 1 pound candi sugar clear
• 1 oz amarillo 8.6%
• 0.5 oz columbus (tomahawk) 14.9%
• 1 pkg safale english ale yeast (S-04)
• 1 pound honey

--------------------------
So just want to check if I'm making the right call on some of the adjustments and if I need to adjust volumes/amounts further

*** 1) I reset the specialty malts back to their original weights and added victory malt back in - I think I'll steep all of these together in a bag?

2) for the base malt I bought 2 jugs of CBW golden light pure malt extract from Briess (each is 3.3 lbs) so x2 = 6.6 pounds -- but I think I will have to use less than the total amount correct? seeing as the original all grain recipe called for 6 pounds 12 oz of pale 2 row malt? (beersmith originally wanted me to use 4 lbs 14.6 oz of pale liquid extract which is more in line with the 75% formula I've seen)

3) for the wheat I bought a 1 lb bag of CBW Bavarian Wheat Dry Malt Extract from Briess -- can I just add that whole amount in or again I'll need to scale it back to match the 12 oz of torrified wheat previously called for? beer smith originally wanted me to use 7.3oz of a wheat liquid extract which is about 60% of the original grain called for

4) do I need to change the amounts of the Honey and Candi Sugar used? For candi sugar I bought a 1lb bag of simplicity premium blonde candi syrup as the guy said it was easier to use --- I noticed Beer Smith seems to think I'll need about 50% more of each of these ingredients (interesting to note though if I did the conversion as a partial extract the amounts of these ingredients stay basically the same)

 

[IslandLizard]

Hi @puyol_hollandaise, welcome to HomeBrewTalk (HBT). You've come to the right place!

I've looked over your conversion recipe and on first impression, you've covered most of it. You've done a remarkable job, better than BeerSmith did or could have done.

The BeerSmith converter tool has a bunch of settings itself that can be tweaked to get it more inline with your purpose, but it's easier to use common sense and tweak the resulting recipe yourself.

I'm going to look a bit closer to see if there's anything that could be improved.
Hope some others will chime in.

Stay tuned!

 

[chickypad]

I agree with IslandLizard that the conversion feature in Beersmith from AG -> extract is not as good as just doing it yourself. You are correct that you will need a little less extract by weight than grain, the exact amount would depend on the efficiency of the original AG recipe but in general if you assume about 75% then you can assume 1 lb of base grain = .75lb LME = .6lb DME. So in this recipe the 6.75 lb of pale malt would convert to about 4lb DME or 5 lb LME. The wheat extract is a little different as it's usually a combo of wheat + barley base (for example Bries uses 65%wheat/35% barley). To account for the 12 oz of wheat you need about .45 lb wheat DME, if you were to use 1 lb Briess wheat that would be .65 lb of wheat so close enough. You can subtract the small additional barley malt contribution from your other base malt extract. I usually just keep the specialty malts and other additions the same as you are doing. If anything you might want to just slightly increase those in an extract recipe to account for slightly less yield compared to mashing, but generally it's probably fine just to carry those over. The sugar additions I would keep the same. The way we are calculating this that would keep the sugar contribution the same percentage of the fermentables, which I think is more true to the initial intent of the recipe.

 

[IslandLizard]

For your 2 sugar adjuncts, the Candi Sugar and Honey, they should be replaced 1:1, what you did is correct. I have no clue why BS changed those.

Now your Simplicity is a thick syrup, not hard candi, so there's some water in it, not sure how much, could be an ounce, perhaps 2. I think you can ignore the difference. Or add a little bit of regular sugar or honey to the recipe. The clear candi syrup is very close to simple syrup made from regular sugar. You can save yourself $6 next time and use regular sugar instead, the yeast won't know the difference. Or make your own "blonde" or darker candi sugar syrup on the stove, all the way up to D-90. It's really easy and fun.

Your dry wheat extract contains 65% wheat 35% barley. I think you're pretty close with your substitution for 12 oz of torrified wheat.

 

[IslandLizard]

+1 to @chickypad's grain to malt conversion. ^
Saving me some time.

It looks with 6.5# of LME you're quite a bit higher than the 5# she calculated you would need. Plus you'll get a little extra Barley extract from the Wheat DME too.
Did you match your "estimated original gravity" (OG) in Beersmith with those in the all-grain (kit) recipe?

If anything, I'd replace the C20 with 8 oz of Honey Malt. In small amounts it helps to bring out a bit more honey flavor, supporting the very subtle flavor honey itself leaves behind.

Ideally, Victory malt needs to be mashed, but you can mimic a mini-mash in a controlled steep, using less water and a regular steeping bag, but you'll need to add 1/2# of pale malt or 2-row.
Since you're using Golden Light LME, you can probably remove the C10. Or leave it there for some extra residual sweetness, and mostly mouthfeel.

 

[puyol_hollandaise]

Thanks so much for the very speedy feedback!!! I think I will be coming back to this forum in future

I figure I'll set my LME down to 4.75 pounds to account for the barley in the wheat DME. Also I took your advice @IslandLizard and with this amount my Est. original gravity for the all grain version and extract version are matched at 1.060 in BeerSmith (the recipe book did not list gravities).

As for the specialty malts the guy at the homebrew shop just mixed them all up in the same bag for me so I might have to stick with those amounts as they are. I made a winter ale once where I just steeped everything in a bag together before boiling. I can't remember the detailed steps so will have to look that up again. But you'd suggest I go back and get 0.5 pounds of pale malt or 2-row and just add that in with the steeping grains?

I'm still a bit confused as to if this is considered an EXTRACT brew or PARTIAL MASH within BeerSmith. If I pick the latter I can choose BIAB (brew in a bag) from a list of Mash Profiles but not sure if this is technically what I am doing.

Anything that I can do with the left over LME? I think I'll have about 1.75 pounds left? Guess I can try a smaller batch brew?

 

[IslandLizard]

If you're not mashing anything, just using steeping grains and malt extract, it's an Extract brew.

If you were to mash the Victory with some Pale or 2-row, it would be considered a mini mash or partial mash, although if you only mash 1 pound in a 5 gallon batch, it's really not much of a mini mash. Typically, mini mashes are larger, contributing up to 30-50% of the sugars.

Since all your grain is mixed, if you put that mix (C10/C20/Victory) plus an additional 1/2 pound (or pound) of 2-row/Pale malt in a 2 gallon pot and only use 3-4 quarts of water, and let it "steep" for 45-60' at around 150F you're technically doing a mini mash.
In the mash, the enzymes in the 2-row will convert the starches in both the 2-row and Victory to sugars. You need to give it a good stir for a minute or 2, so it's all mixed well with the water, then put in slightly pre-warmed and turned off oven for that hour. The temp should not rise above 158F or drop below 145F during that hour. At the end, stir well again, strain the wort through a sieve, lined with your grain bag, and pour the collected wort into your kettle. Leave the sludgy grain dust on the bottom behind (or filter it out). You could rinse those grains out one more time with some water and strain again. The rinse is called sparge.

Just steeping the Victory will not convert the starches to sugars and they'll end up as starchy trub in the bottom of your kettle, with minimal flavor contribution.

 

[IslandLizard]

Put the leftover LME in the fridge, in its [edit] plastic bag, inside a (closed) original container; it will keep well for at least a few weeks, possibly much longer. Use in your next brew.

I think you could freeze it, not sure, but it will keep for a year, at least. I've frozen homemade candi sugar and it kept for years.

 

[puyol_hollandaise]

Thanks again @IslandLizard. I'll see about giving your technique a try. Just to be totally clear when you outline the steps is the 45-60 min steep at 150F to be done on the stove top or in the pre-heated oven? I'm thinking the latter because I don't think this is a 2 hour process right? Last time I did the steeping over the stove top (essentially like making a giant pot of tea) but I would be up for giving the the oven a go as will give me a good reason to use my new chef alarm thermometer

Now just need to set up time for a good brew day (have a possible trip coming up that I want to plan around for bottling purposes) --- but once its all going down I'll definitely update the thread!

 

[IslandLizard]

I mentioned the prewarmed AND turned-off oven as they tend to keep the temp inside quite well. Most ovens don't go down to 150F and if they do, it may well be 180F in there, they're not that well calibrated in that lower temp region.

So, prewarm oven until it's 150-160F inside, turn it off, stick your 150F pot in there (lid on) and she should be good for an hour. If you're really dedicated, you can turn her back on for a short while, half way through the mash. Just don't let the content of that pot get any hotter than 155F.

The enzymatic conversion takes place between 148F and 160F, but any hotter the enzymes start to denature rapidly. For good fermentable wort, mashing at 148-152F is ideal. The mash is probably done after 30-45 minutes, but we generally give it an hour. You can give it another good stir midway. Yeah, put that Chef Alarm to some good use!

To start the mash, heat pot with 3 quarts water until it's @162F. Add your 2 pounds of milled grain (8oz each of C10/C20/Victory/2-row), stir well for a minute, measure temp. If needed, heat while stirring well, so it doesn't scorch, until it is at 150F, cover, place in warm oven.

 

[IslandLizard]

Oh, add that (half) pound of 2-row/pale to your BS recipe, you'll get a few points of sugar from that too at the rate of 36 points per pound (pp). Victory is 34 pp.
If you use 1/2 pound of each, you'll end up using .9 pound of LME less.

half pound each: 18 + 17 = 35 pp
LME = 38 pp

 

[IslandLizard]

What kind of water do you use?

 

[puyol_hollandaise]

So I ran a little experiment on my oven. Stuck my chef alarm probe in there to measure the air in centre of the oven. Followed your advice @IslandLizard about turning it off and waiting for it to drop to 150F. However I found it only stayed around there for a minute or two before dropping to the 140s but then if I fire it back on for even just a split second it shoots up to 160+ !!! Now I'm not sure if that would equate to my mash content temperature as the probe was just measuring air... I guess I could try it with a pot of water and see if I can keep it consistently around 150F for 30-45 min?

So if I add the 1/2 pound of 2 row and victory then I'll subtract MORE from my LME total? I was going to do 4.75 pounds but maybe I should do 3.85 pounds is what you're suggesting?

As for water I have just used tap water in the past (Toronto's finest )

For the "mini-mash" do you suggest I put the grains in a muslin bag or directly into the pot? I do also have a strainer I picked up so I could do the 1 gallon batches as described by Brooklyn Brew Shop.

 

[IslandLizard]

You cannot rely on the air temp, it fluctuates too much. But the oven walls have a lot of stored heat capacity, that's why it should be prewarmed to 150-160F.
Believe me, a warm oven is better than a cold countertop with cold air around it.
No need to do a "dry" run with a pot of water. Eyeball it, or use a small amount of water, like an ounce or 2 in a small metal measuring cup, sure.

I'd have the oven prewarmed to around 155-160F when putting the 150F pot inside. By the time you close the door and the extra "warmth" moves inside the pot, it will be 150F.

Your tap water will be fine or acceptable for mashing that small amount, don't sweat it. Unless you get your water from a natural spa, it will work.

Yup. You'll get 35 points from the pound of grist: 1/2# 2-row (18 pts) + 1/2# Victory (17 pts). Use 0.9 # of LME less (=35 pts).

Put them directly in the pot, easier to stir. You need to stir well so all the milled grain is wet throughout. It will resemble thin porridge. Stir again for a few seconds after 20 minutes in the oven.

 

[puyol_hollandaise]

OK so here is the updated recipe in BS

Extract version -- would this now be considered a "Partial Mash"?
I noticed when I took off the 0.9# LME as you suggested @IslandLizard my estimated OG went down to 1.054 (but if I call it a partial mash it goes up to 1.062...)

• 1 lbs DME Wheat Bavarian (Briess) --- see 3) below
  
• 3 lbs 13.6 oz LME Golden Light (Briess) (4.0 SRM)

Steeping/Mini-Mash grains

• 8 oz Caramel/Crystal malt - 10L
• 8 oz Caramel/Crystal malt - 20L
• 8 oz Victory Malt
• 8 oz Pale Malt 2-Row (Briess)

other stuff

• 1 pound candi sugar clear
• 1 oz amarillo 8.6%
• 0.5 oz columbus (tomahawk) 14.9%
• 1 pkg safale english ale yeast (S-04)
• 1 pound honey

---------------
So to reiterate, at the start I take 0.75 gallons (3 quarts) of water and just mix in all the (2 pounds of grains) - this seems in line with chapter 13 of How To Brews suggestion to keep steeping water to less than 1 gallon per pound of specialty malt. In fact my ratio is 0.375 gallons per pound -- its OK to have a lower ratio? or does that rule not really apply because I am in fact doing a kind of mash as opposed to a true steep. Does it make a difference if I just round up and use a gallon? (4 quarts)?

Then once I've collected my wort through the strainer/bag I will add my DME and LME for the boil?? (in past recipes I've been instructed to add half the LME at the start and then half 15 or so min from the end of the boil? I've never used DME yet...)

The original recipe suggests I add the Columbus hops at the start of the boil and half of the amarillo after 30 minutes. Then add 5 dried grapefruit peels at 55 minutes, then the rest of the amarillo at 59 minutes. At the 60 minute mark it suggests adding the candi sugar and 1+1/4 cup honey and stir to dissolve then ice bath to 70F. Does this sound good?

 

[chickypad]

It would be a partial mash, however for good conversion I would include a little more base malt since you've only got 0.5 lb for a 2 lb mash. While the crystal doesn't have to be mashed you will get more out of it mashing so I include it in the total to be converted. As a general rule of thumb I think it's good practice to try to have at least half the mash be base malt. Since the Briess LME comes in 3.3 lb increments you could drop the LME to 3.3 lbs, and make up the difference with 12 more oz of 2 row, for a total of 1.25 lbs.

The one gallon per lb is for steeping. I would instead mash in about 6 qts - that's on the thinner side so you can skip the sparge. Re: the oven, as Island said it will hold temp fine. Even if the air temp inside is 140 that's still much closer than room temp, so the mash should hold it's temp plenty long. I do this all the time with my small BIAB batches - preheat to 170, turn it off while I'm mashing in, put it in the oven and leave it. Most of the conversion will happen in the first 30 mins, but even up to 60 min there should be very little temp loss.

I would boil with your wort and the DME only, adding all the LME at flameout. You may have to add a little water to the wort for your boil to bring the volume up.

I think you are listing your boil times backwards, convention is to list additions with how much time left in the boil . So if you are saying add the grapefruit at 5 min (left to go) and the amarillo at 1 min, with the sugars at flameout (0min) then yes that looks good.

 

[IslandLizard]

Yeah, this !!! ^

Excellent!

It would be a partial mash, however for good conversion I would include a little more base malt since you've only got 0.5 lb for a 2 lb mash. While the crystal doesn't have to be mashed you will get more out of it mashing so I include it in the total to be converted. As a general rule of thumb I think it's good practice to try to have at least half the mash be base malt. Since the Briess LME comes in 3.3 lb increments you could drop the LME to 3.3 lbs, and make up the difference with 12 more oz of 2 row, for a total of 1.25 lbs.

I was thinking about that when I wrote it up, but didn't double check. From what I understand it is the convertible starch load that determines how many points of Lintner we need for complete conversion, but when the grist average is less than 30 °Lintner, it may take forever to convert. The enzymes density is just too low at that point. So yes, let's use more 2-row.

From BeerSmith Blog:

Lets look at a quick example: a partial mash using 2 lb of Caramel Malt, 1 pound of chocolate malt, and 1 pound of British Pale malt, with a diastatic power of 50 Lintner. The Caramel and Chocolate malts both have a diastatic power of zero, so they each contribute (0L x 1lbs) and (0L x 2lbs) for a total contribution of zero lintner-pounds. The pale malt is (50L x 1 lb) for a total contribution of 50 L-lbs. Now we add the contributions for all three up (which is 0+0+50) or 50 L-lbs. Now we divide by the total grain weight in the mash which is simply 4 lbs, which leaves an overall average diastatic power of 50/4 or 12.5 Lintner. Since this number is smaller than 30 L needed to convert the overall mash, another few pounds of pale malt or a grain with higher diastatic power might be warranted.

I will note that the above calculation is a rough approximation, as the specialty grains are only partially fermentable and contain many non-convertible starches, but I usually prefer to err on the side of more enzymes rather than end up short in the mash. Also, I don’t like to wait forever for my mash to complete, so I will often shoot for a number higher than the 30 L limit shown above. Note that this calculation is really only needed for mashes with high percentages of specialty malts, as most modern base malts have very high diastatic power.

That's sort of the case here, crystal malts generally don't add much in convertible starches, but those lower Lovibond crystals/cara malts (under 30°Lovibond) actually do, same as Carapils and Carafoam.

The OP already bought the (Briess) LME in 3.3# jugs. Good call to leave the 2nd one sealed and up the grain just a tad (4 oz) more.

Now 1.5 + 1.25 = 2.75 pounds needs to be converted.
American 2-row has a DP of around 120-140 °Lintner, so 1.25 pounds of that should more than suffice even at 120 °L:

(1.25 * 120°L) / (1.5 + 1.25)# of grist = 55 °Lintner average per # of grist. >>30, so OK to go.​

Mash at 1.5 quarts of water per pound, so 1.5 x 2.75 = 4.13 quarts. A gallon will do fine. A sparge will rinse out a few more points of sugars. Or as @chickypad said, mash a little thinner by using 6 quarts, if it can fit in your pot. Sparging may not be needed, although you still could. Mind, just drizzling some water over the grains in the strainer doesn't do much of a sparge (rinse). The sugars are absorbed in the wet grain.

 

[puyol_hollandaise]

Thanks again both of you for the prompt replies and very thorough help you are providing. As brew day approaches it has given me much confidence

So I added the extra 12 oz of base malt and dropped the LME back to 3.3 pounds (1 jug). I've uploaded a PDF of my brew steps as they come out in BeerSmith now. I know this isn't a BeerSmith forum and really I'm more just using the program for general outline and record keeping as opposed to getting too technical with the parameters as yet. Just wondered if you had any thoughts on how I should enter/list my LME and sugar additions which i want to add at flameout (0min). If I enter 0 then BS assumes its in there for the full boil, but then if I choose Add After Bowl it slots in my additions with the yeast/fermentation. And yes I did list the times backwards of convention - sorry thats how it was listed in the recipe book.

Just a note about the Lintner amounts in the 2-row, if I choose the Briess variety in BS my value is more like 85 Linter, where as if I do the (US) one it gives me 140 as you said @IslandLizard. I've yet to go pick up the 2-row from the shop so I guess I can wait to see what they have on offer? If I sub out 85 in your calculation it still looks like I get ~36 as final number which is still above 30 so I guess I'm OK either way?

 

[IslandLizard]

Briess lists their (2-row) Brewers Malt to have a DP of 140 according to that PDF.

BeerSmith had some errors in their tables. Have you updated your BS tables lately to get the latest ones?
Mine shows: Brewers Malt 2-Row (Briess) > Diastatic Power: 140.0 Lintner

Not that it matters for your recipe as long as you follow our directions.

85°L is more of a value for British Ale malts.
If it were indeed 85L, your average DP would be ~39L (not 36), it would mean it may take longer to convert. Most mashes are pretty much done in 20-30 minutes anyway, as long as the grain is finely milled and well hydrated. So mashing for an hour is a safeguard. [Hmm, I don't like that].

In commercial (craft) breweries they only mash for 35-45 minutes, but they have constant agitation and perfect hydration and temperature control. If they don't mashout in the mash tun, it would still convert while pumping to the lauter tun and during early sparging. They may even count on that, not sure, got to ask next time.

By putting it in as a 1 minute boil, as you did, it seems to fix that.
BeerSmith is weird in so many ways. I hope he fixed those aberrations in the new upcoming v3.0, which hopefully isn't laced with bugs.

There are a few other irregularities in your BS recipe printout, like the whole mash water additions are way off. You may spend 20 minutes figuring out how to fix those. Just ignore them, follow what @chickypad said.

You're only boiling 3 gallons right? That's throwing off the IBU calcs. Again BS is just a tool, that's how I use it.
When it comes to brewing, use common sense!

A few more details:

• When are you adding your syrup and honey?
• How are you chilling the wort?
• Are you re-hydrating your dry yeast before pitching?
• What kind of fermentor are you using?

 

[puyol_hollandaise]

Where does one go to update BeerSmith tables? I have Briess Malts add-on, hops update 2016, simpsons and weyermann malts. It says I have the latest version when I click check for updates on the help menu

1min seems the latest that I can add anything to the boil in BS2 so I could just set my honey and candi syrup to one minute also I guess?. The book says @ 60 min mark to turn off heat (flameout?) and add candi sugar and honey and dissolve it before moving to ice bath.

I agree BS does seem to do weird things but I'm not too hung up on it giving me perfect calculations. Maybe I should look into other brew software though I did just pre-order BS3 with the discount. Hopefully it fixes a lot of these issues as you said. He's had some time to develop it that's for sure! I don't think my equipment is really even set up properly in BS and yes i plan to follow more your guidelines, Brooklyn brew shop book and common sense instead of following the brew steps verbatim.

Good question about boil volume as I'm not really sure how much I'm going to boil.... I guess 3 gallons? The book is for a 1 gallon recipe and says I need 2 quarts water + 1 gallon for sparging so if I do that x5? that would be 7.5 gallons total water? but I may or may not be skipping the sparge? So now I'm a bit confused.... I figured I'd just boil whatever I have left after mashing/steeping and then top it up in the fermenter? but maybe thats not a good plan?

Not entirely sure how I'll chill yet... I think I could fit my boil pot in the sink with some ice and recirculate cold water around it. Alternatively I can carry thru to the bathtub. I have aspirations to make an immersion chiller some day... Baby steps.

I seem to recall rehydrating the yeast in past brews yes, I mostly followed John Palmers how to brew book.

Fermenter is a 6? Gallon (sorry Imperial measurements still confuse my Canadian brain sometimes) plastic food grade pail with 3 piece airlock. I plan to ferment 2 weeks and then put in a similar size pail with a bottling spigot. The book says to use honey to prime the bottles but I was thinking of just adding dextrose to the bottling pail and then siphon/rack the fermented beer into there with a gentle swirl trying to keep bubbles to a minimum.

 

[IslandLizard]

I'd make a better brew day list if I were you, so you don't forget things. It's definitely a more complicated brew.

If 1 minute additions for your sugars work, keep BS happy and list them as such.

The size of your kettle mandates how much you can boil. So does your energy source. What volume is that kettle?
Not sure what the book refers to with sparging? The steeped grains perhaps?

If your water is good drinkable quality, I don't see why you'd need to boil it before adding it as top up water to your fermentor.

Chilling your wort from 210-110F is the fastest, regular tap water is fine, no ice is needed. It's the last 30-40 degrees that need very cold water.
Some brewers chill their top up water, or even near freeze some of it. That brings it down from 120 to 66F in no time, with little effort.

Definitely follow the rehydration instructions for the yeast, the timing of it is essential. That is until we see some definitive proof that dry sprinkling onto the wort is actually better. Fermentis' E2U (Easy to Use) stamp is not persuasive, at least to me. How to Brew FTW!

Sorry, I didn't know you were in metric / Canada. I now think in U.S. Customary when brewing, cooking, measuring, building, etc., although I was schooled and taught to think in metric.

You could add the honey and sugar syrup at flameout together with the LME. Or hold onto them until fermentation is slowing down a bit, especially the honey.
You could keep some honey (5 oz?) behind and use that to prime your batch for bottling. The later you add honey the more flavor remains. That's why adding it later in fermentation is preferred by some, including me.

If you have downloaded all the add ons, there's nothing left to import. Just open that item and edit the value. Still makes one wonder where that 85 came from.

You should do the same for your hops' actual AA%.

BeerSmith's interface (UI) has been a big peeve. I do hope he got rid of all the annoyances.
Although I hate subscription-ware, I may make an exception for the new version. $10-15 a year is not that bad, one 6-pack. I do expect a lot of bug fixes in the coming year...

 

[chickypad]

What is the problem with adding the ingredients after the boil, you mean you don't like where it puts it on the brew steps? You don't have to follow the steps exactly, you can still add them to the boil kettle after flameout. The one nice thing about checking the "after boil" box is that it should give you the estimated post boil gravity without the extra sugars so you can check how you did with your mash. Adding the LME and sugars then trying to get an accurate reading will be hard as they are hard to mix completely uniformly.

 

[puyol_hollandaise]

OK so I bit the bullet and brewed this past Saturday. Seemed to go quite well all considered. A few notes.

I had to go buy a 12 quart stock pot as I realized my 5 gallon boil pot was not going to fit in the oven and the other smaller stockpots were too small to hold all mash - good thing the kitchen supply store was open on Sat!!

The oven trick worked like an absolute charm! maintained temp very very well as per my Chef Alarm - I mashed with about 6 quarts of water

Interestingly my weight of combined grains was over 3 pounds to start - I happened to measure just out of curiosity and I wonder if the guy at the brew shop topped me up a little bit? Oh well I should hope it won't affect things too much (I already know not to expect my brew to turn out exactly how beer smith is predicting it will)

I did some kind of sparge? I think? (not sure the correct specific sparge term) - basically once draining the grains through the strainer/muslin bag into my boil pot I then poured another 3-4 quarts of water over the grains to bring the boil volume to around 3 gallons total (in a 5 gallon pot)

I measured the pre-boil gravity to be 1.020 -- a bit lower than Beer Smith's predicted 1.031 (this was before adding any extracts)

I then added the DME, turned up to boil, waited for hot break then added my hops as per the BrewSteps

I added the LME, honey, candi sugar just before killing the heat at the 60min mark and mixed well

Cooled to 70F in 20? minutes using my bathtub, recirculating cold water/ice around the pot and also by adding some cold tap water to the boil pot itself

My measured OG @ 71-72F before moving it to the fermenter was 1.088 (this was also before topping up to 5 gallon mark)

After I had moved to the fermentation pail and topped up to 5 gallons with more tap water my OG was 1.043 (I didn't check the exact temp at this time) - again a bit lower than BS predicted at 1.061

Pitched my rehydrated yeast and shook vigorously

Its now bubbling away in my hallway at about 75F (my condo is pretty small and seems to stay at this temp pretty consistently - I have not turned on my air conditioning)

@chickypad the concern about ticking after the boil was that it listed my sugar additions AFTER the yeast which is really just my OCD kicking in. I'm still not sure how that affects beer smiths predictions of things but again I'm not holding it to be 100% accountable.

@IslandLizard the book has me use honey as the priming sugar when I bottle the beers --- I wonder if that would also add more honey flavour? I had thought of just swapping out dextrose as it seems easier to dissolve that in the bottling bucket but I could give the honey a try

Thanks for the help again both of you - I'll keep you posted with how it turns out!!!

 

[chickypad]

That 1.043 after adding top up water may be suspect as it's very hard to get complete mixing with top up water. Same with the preboil measurement if you didn't stir the heck out of it after sparging. Even the measurement after the post boil sugar additions could be off, but maybe closer to true if you mixed that one really well. What volume of water was that 1.088 in?

Listing the sugar additions in the fermenter with the yeast won't affect any final calculations. What it will do is give you the expected gravity post boil (before the sugar/LME/honey addition and before topping off) which would be the most accurate measurement. If you're not that interested in exact readings or measuring your mash efficiency, and you're just trying to make beer, then it don't sweat it and just leave it as is.

 

[puyol_hollandaise]

I did not measure the volume exactly but I'm going to guess in the range of 2.5 gallons (assuming some of it boiled off and I started with just under 3 gallons at the beginning of the boil?)

I know those volume measurements are useful for improving the accuracy of my equipment profile but how does one go about measuring volumes practically? Do most people just use weights? I know 1 mL of water = 1 gram but for wort the density would be different I presume so not a direct conversion. I could use my 1 L measuring cup but I feel like it would take ages to measure out and risk of contamination would go up no?

 

[IslandLizard]

Its now bubbling away in my hallway at about 75F (my condo is pretty small and seems to stay at this temp pretty consistently

That's pretty hot! Any cooler place around? 66-68F would be ideal.

@IslandLizard the book has me use honey as the priming sugar when I bottle the beers --- I wonder if that would also add more honey flavour? I had thought of just swapping out dextrose as it seems easier to dissolve that in the bottling bucket but I could give the honey a try

When using honey in beer, much of the residual flavor and aroma is being covered up by other, stronger flavors and aromas present in beer. Honey is only making up 10% of the fermentables or so. It's not mead, which in itself can be fairly subtle showing those flavors and aromas considering its base is 100% honey (and water).

So when we use honey in beer, and we want to taste it, we want as much of its flavors and aromas preserved. Many brewers (me included) believe it's better to add honey after most of the fermentation has subsided. Fermentation will pick up somewhat, but there is far less CO2 production at that time driving off those subtle flavors and aromas. Then using honey when bottling it adds a little more honey flavor and aroma.

It would have been my preference to add the honey later on, but I forgot to point it out.

So yeah, if you have some honey (left), use it for priming.

 

[puyol_hollandaise]

Sadly no... I live in a studio and thats about as cool and away from the sun as I can get it. I could turn on the A/C but my bill would be monstrous... (I already cringe to think what it will show for the past Saturday in terms of water/electric usage) I'm trying to hold out until those 90F + days start later in the summer

 

[IslandLizard]

Use a large bucket, plastic tub, or cooler your fermentor fits in. Fill with cold water and a few frozen water bottles to get it down to 66-68F. That large water jacket helps keeping it cooler. Cooler, controlled fermentations make much better beer!

 

[chickypad]

I know those volume measurements are useful for improving the accuracy of my equipment profile but how does one go about measuring volumes practically? Do most people just use weights? I know 1 mL of water = 1 gram but for wort the density would be different I presume so not a direct conversion. I could use my 1 L measuring cup but I feel like it would take ages to measure out and risk of contamination would go up no?

Some kettles have sight glasses or etchings on the inside for volumes. When using kettles without those I have always just marked a tall plastic spoon with measurements specific to that kettle. Or you can use a metal ruler and figure your measurements per qt, gallon, etc.