Help deciding what to do with sparge

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mcleanmj

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I'm gonna brew a more beer kit with a 10 gallon cooler mash tun and turkey fryer set up. Its a 15 pound grain bill. With my normal numbers (brewfather), this would give me 6.75 gallons mash water and 1.5 gallon sparge water. This is with ~1.75 quarts per gallon mash. Anyway, 1.5 gallons is not much of a sparge. I'm considering just saying screw it and doing a no sparge and mashing with the full 8 gallons of water. I've not done that before. I'm sure there will an efficiency loss, but not sure how much. Is it worth keeping the 1.5 gallon sparge?

Any advice welcome.

Thanks!
 
I'm gonna brew a more beer kit with a 10 gallon cooler mash tun and turkey fryer set up. Its a 15 pound grain bill. With my normal numbers (brewfather), this would give me 6.75 gallons mash water and 1.5 gallon sparge water. This is with ~1.75 quarts per gallon mash. Anyway, 1.5 gallons is not much of a sparge. I'm considering just saying screw it and doing a no sparge and mashing with the full 8 gallons of water. I've not done that before. I'm sure there will an efficiency loss, but not sure how much. Is it worth keeping the 1.5 gallon sparge?

Any advice welcome.

Thanks!

I do almost all no-sparge brewing now, but recirculate to maximumize the efficiency and contact with the grain.

There are several ways for you to do this- you can do a thicker mash, and make your runnings more equal to maximum efficiency and still get a good quality wort. So mash with 1.25 quarts/pound, and sparge with the remainder. Or, go ahead and do a full volume mash. I think either way you'll be fine.

However, the issue is that 8 gallons of water and 15 pounds of grain will NOT fit in a 10 gallon cooler. So you'll need to find a larger mashing vessel or do the 1.25-1.5 quarts/pound and sparge method.
 
I do almost all no-sparge brewing now, but recirculate to maximumize the efficiency and contact with the grain.

There are several ways for you to do this- you can do a thicker mash, and make your runnings more equal to maximum efficiency and still get a good quality wort. So mash with 1.25 quarts/pound, and sparge with the remainder. Or, go ahead and do a full volume mash. I think either way you'll be fine.

However, the issue is that 8 gallons of water and 15 pounds of grain will NOT fit in a 10 gallon cooler. So you'll need to find a larger mashing vessel or do the 1.25-1.5 quarts/pound and sparge method.

That's what I figured, but brewfather tells me I would have a 9.42 gallon total volume grains+water with no sparge and brewfather has never been wrong for me before. The mash tun has a very small dead space since it uses a braided hose instead of false bottom.

I'll probably meet in the middle and try a 1.5 quart per pound mash.

Thanks!
 
Using my mash and lauter simulator, I get the following for 8.25 gal total brewing water, 15 lb grain bill, 0.12 gal/lb grain absorption, and 0 undrainable MLT volume. Calculations are for single batch sparge. Lauter efficiency for a fly, or pour over, sparge could be higher or lower, depending on how well it is conducted.

Mash volume: 9.45 gal (for full volume no sparge)
Pre-boil volume: 6.45 gal (all cases)
Lauter efficiency:
Full volume: 70.7%​
1.50 qt/lb: 79.2%​
1.25 qt/lb: 79.4%​

Mash efficiency will equal lauter efficiency (as above) times conversion efficiency.

Brew on :mug:
 
1.75 quarts per gallon mash seems like a fairly thin mash for a traditional sparge process. A full volume mash might be fine, I would probably just move closer to a 1.5 or 1.3 qt/lb ratio to increase the amount of sparge water. (well, I moved to BIAB 3 years ago, but if I was still sparging that is what I would do)
 
I do almost all no-sparge brewing now, but recirculate to maximumize the efficiency and contact with the grain.

There are several ways for you to do this- you can do a thicker mash, and make your runnings more equal to maximum efficiency and still get a good quality wort. So mash with 1.25 quarts/pound, and sparge with the remainder. Or, go ahead and do a full volume mash. I think either way you'll be fine.

However, the issue is that 8 gallons of water and 15 pounds of grain will NOT fit in a 10 gallon cooler. So you'll need to find a larger mashing vessel or do the 1.25-1.5 quarts/pound and sparge method.

This! I typically mash @ 1.25 qt/lb and get pretty great efficiencies. A few more details please, is MoreBeer doing the crush or are you?
 
Just an idea that I used once apparently to good effect. I sparged a similar sized mash bill but instead of going into the kettle with the rest of the wort, I kept it as a separate batch, and added some LME to bring up the gravity. So the main batch was full strength mash, the sparge became a new batch with gravity boosted by extract. The sparge / extract batch I now see came out pretty good and I forgot what I did with it or what it tasted like because at the time I put it up, I actually didn't taste the fully conditioned beer. The main batch went to keg as usual, and I bottled the sparge batch and forgot about it. 6 months later I am moving my beer stuff to the new house and find a case and a half of bottled mystery beer and I wasn't supposed to have any in bottles. I chilled and tasted a couple and it was pretty good. Not my best, but good enough for dinner table beer. I couldn't remember where it came from, though. JUST NOW I put two and two together and remembered what I did, and this must be the sparge batch. I will try that again some time down the line. The next two brew sessions are already planned in detail.

There is no point in throwing away good fermentables IMHO. If you are considering a no-sparge batch, I suggest you go ahead and sparge two gallons but keep it out of your main batch, chill a sample and check the gravity. Add enough suitable extract for an acceptable OG, give it a boil, ferment separately, and see what you get! You should have a lot of the complexity of your mash bill superimposed on a base of extract that is essentially your blank canvas.
 
Just an idea that I used once apparently to good effect. I sparged a similar sized mash bill but instead of going into the kettle with the rest of the wort, I kept it as a separate batch, and added some LME to bring up the gravity. So the main batch was full strength mash, the sparge became a new batch with gravity boosted by extract. The sparge / extract batch I now see came out pretty good and I forgot what I did with it or what it tasted like because at the time I put it up, I actually didn't taste the fully conditioned beer. The main batch went to keg as usual, and I bottled the sparge batch and forgot about it. 6 months later I am moving my beer stuff to the new house and find a case and a half of bottled mystery beer and I wasn't supposed to have any in bottles. I chilled and tasted a couple and it was pretty good. Not my best, but good enough for dinner table beer. I couldn't remember where it came from, though. JUST NOW I put two and two together and remembered what I did, and this must be the sparge batch. I will try that again some time down the line. The next two brew sessions are already planned in detail.

There is no point in throwing away good fermentables IMHO. If you are considering a no-sparge batch, I suggest you go ahead and sparge two gallons but keep it out of your main batch, chill a sample and check the gravity. Add enough suitable extract for an acceptable OG, give it a boil, ferment separately, and see what you get! You should have a lot of the complexity of your mash bill superimposed on a base of extract that is essentially your blank canvas.

That's an awesome idea, thanks for sharing!
 
This! I typically mash @ 1.25 qt/lb and get pretty great efficiencies. A few more details please, is MoreBeer doing the crush or are you?

So, I ended up doing 1.5 qt/lb with a pretty light sparge. In retrospect, I should have done 1.25 qt/lb.

Anyway, I ordered the grains crushed by MoreBeer because I'm at my parents house for the holidays and my dad doesn't have a mill. The crush was pretty terrible honestly. I ended up with the worst mash efficiency I've ever seen ~50%. I normally pull ~75% in this mash tun set up. I am really shocked. Granted the grain bill had 3 lbs of flaked oats, but I am still really surprised. I stirred the living s*** out of the grains when I mashed in and also every 15 minutes during the mash. I suppose I should have done a longer mash and balanced the mash and sparge volumes better. But I think the crush is responsible for a lot of it. Mash pH was 5.3. I'm really shocked, I mean I missed the OG by 16 points. I've never had such low efficiency. Even with 16 lb grain bills and tons of flaked oats on my Brewzilla I pull 65%+.

Is MoreBeer known for poor crush?
 
Is MoreBeer known for poor crush?

I am a fan of MoreBeer and I have been a long time customer of theirs...both when I lived on the west coast and now that I am in Virginia. But I see pictures of their VERY coarse crush and wonder what they are doing there. I have seen some customer service replies from them on the topic, and they seem to get a bit defensive about it.
 
However, the issue is that 8 gallons of water and 15 pounds of grain will NOT fit in a 10 gallon cooler. So you'll need to find a larger mashing vessel or do the 1.25-1.5 quarts/pound and sparge method.
I've been using the "CAN I MASH IT" calculator on the Green Bay Rackers homebrew club website for years and it has been pretty reliable.
So according to the above calculator, 15 lbs of grain at 1.75 qts/lb will use 7.76 gallons of space. So if you add 1.5 gallons of sparge water you'll be 9.26 gallons. So if you choose to use 8 gallons of water, you'll still have 1/2 gallon space left, which is pretty close, but it actually will work.
Here's link to the calculator:
https://web.archive.org/web/20201111195637/https://www.rackers.org/calcs.shtmlIf you don't want to push the capacity of your cooler mash tun, just draw off a gallon of the first runnings and then dump your sparge water in.
 
I am a fan of MoreBeer and I have been a long time customer of theirs...both when I lived on the west coast and now that I am in Virginia. But I see pictures of their VERY coarse crush and wonder what they are doing there. I have seen some customer service replies from them on the topic, and they seem to get a bit defensive about it.

I feel like it's the only thing that can explain the terrible efficiency I got on this brew, I've never seen such bad numbers with the same exact process.
 
However, the issue is that 8 gallons of water and 15 pounds of grain will NOT fit in a 10 gallon cooler. So you'll need to find a larger mashing vessel or do the 1.25-1.5 quarts/pound and sparge method.


i fit 7 gallons, and upwards of 23lbs in a 10 gallon cooler? with room to spare?
 
So, I ended up doing 1.5 qt/lb with a pretty light sparge. In retrospect, I should have done 1.25 qt/lb.

Anyway, I ordered the grains crushed by MoreBeer because I'm at my parents house for the holidays and my dad doesn't have a mill. The crush was pretty terrible honestly. I ended up with the worst mash efficiency I've ever seen ~50%. I normally pull ~75% in this mash tun set up. I am really shocked. Granted the grain bill had 3 lbs of flaked oats, but I am still really surprised. I stirred the living s*** out of the grains when I mashed in and also every 15 minutes during the mash. I suppose I should have done a longer mash and balanced the mash and sparge volumes better. But I think the crush is responsible for a lot of it. Mash pH was 5.3. I'm really shocked, I mean I missed the OG by 16 points. I've never had such low efficiency. Even with 16 lb grain bills and tons of flaked oats on my Brewzilla I pull 65%+.

Is MoreBeer known for poor crush?

Morebeer and most online retailers will usually crush big to be on the conservative side. You never know what sort of n00b is going to buy their kit and end up with a stuck mash and bad-mouth them online. Mash thicker, the more sparge volume you can send using fly sparging the bigger the boost in efficiency.
 
Morebeer and most online retailers will usually crush big to be on the conservative side. You never know what sort of n00b is going to buy their kit and end up with a stuck mash and bad-mouth them online. Mash thicker, the more sparge volume you can send using fly sparging the bigger the boost in efficiency.

Good to know. I've at least seen that the crush from Nothern Brewer was much better than MoreBeer. The grains from MoreBeer had many whole, uncracked grains.
 

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