Help Choosing First Vessel

[Epos7]

Hi all, I'm in the process of dipping my toes into homebrewing for the first time. I've brewed with friends a couple of times using the BIAB method, and it's always been fun. I'd like to start my own small operation to keep some beer on hand.

I don't want to go overboard buying equipment right away, but I also don't want to spend money on things I'll quickly outgrow or want to replace. I'm happy to pay for quality as long as it's something I'll get a lot of use out of.

I have a couple of glass carboys I plan to use as fermenters. I'm planning to start with the BIAB method and moving to a three vessel system if I think it's worth the extra cost and hassle, but from where I sit right now BIAB looks pretty appealing

I'll likely be making 5 gallon batches. I can't see myself drinking enough to warrant more than that. Even sharing with friends, I think 5 gallons will be plenty. I'd rather make a few different 5 gallon batches for variety than have a larger batch that's all the same. Given that, I'm looking at either a 10 or 15 gallon kettle.

My only requirement is that the kettle have tri clamp fittings. I worked in a winery for a little while and grew to appreciate how easy they are to assemble, disassemble, and clean. I'd like to make my brew day as efficient as possible so I can focus on the enjoyable parts and spend less time on the mundane stuff. Tri clamp fittings will help with that.

Based on my research, my three options for tri clamp fittings are Bru Gear, Colorado Brewing Systems, and Spike Kettles. I'm leaning toward Spike or Bru Gear in large part because Colorado Brewing Systems' website is terrible and makes finding information way more difficult than it should be. Bru Gear kettles include tri clamp fittings as standard, Spike will add them as a custom option.

Spike has the thickest material and I believe may have the best false bottom design, which brings me to my second question: do I want a false bottom? I realize they are typically used with a three vessel system to filter the wort through the grainbed, but I'm thinking there may be advantages with BIAB as well. I'll likely use mostly full leaf hops, and the false bottom would allow me to filter them out of the wort after boil. Additionally, if I undershoot my mash in temperature and have to add some heat, a false bottom would keep the bag from burning on the bottom of the kettle.

My last question is if I should add any extra fittings to the kettle besides the drain port. I'm not sure if I will ever get into brewing with an electric element or using a whirlpool. I have a Thermapen I plan to use for measuring temperature, so is another port for a thermometer necessary? Is there anything else extra ports are used for that I'm missing?

Any input is greatly appreciated! I'm waiting to hear back from Spike regarding the cost of adding tri clamp fittings, and have also been in contact with Bru Gear. I'd like to get something ordered within the next few days so I can focus on any other equipment I might need.

Thanks,
Josh

 

[dmcman73]

Go with a Spike kettle, you won't be disappointed.

As for the false bottom, you can get it now and use it as a "support" for the grain bag in your BIAB and if you move to a 3 vessel all grain, you'll already have a false bottom for the Mashtun. Some BIAB brewers use a stainless wire shelf (similar to a false bottom, but without the fine holes) to hold their grain bags up off the bottom of the kettle.

Adding a port for the thermometer is not a bad idea and thread in a "manual" thermometer to it. This way as you're chilling, you won't have to keep dipping your thermopen into the wort to check the temps, just look at the thermomter in the kettle.

If you think you may go all electric, add the 2 inch TC clamp to the bottom side of the kettle and use a 2 inch blank cover on it for now. This way if you do go electric, it's there and ready to go. Pop the blank cover off and use an electric element mounted to a TC housing.

 

[Yesfan]

I vote for the Spike kettle, specifically the 15 gallon. This way you'll have plenty of space for full volume mashing. As you move to a three vessel setup, that same kettle will give you plenty of space for big beer mash volumes and/or 10 gallon mash volumes.

 

[Epos7]

Thanks guys, appreciate the input. I'm leaning heavily toward the 15 gallon Spike kettle, just waiting to hear back from them. I emailed over the holiday weekend, and I'm guessing they have a lot to catch up on.

One thing I'm struggling with is whether to add a whirlpool port. I'm not in love with the idea of running hot wort through a pump, but I can't think of any other way to do it. Maybe I'll just stick with stirring.

 

[Epos7]

One question I have that may help me decide whether or not to add the port for an electric element is whether an electric element setup has any advantages over an induction burner? I'll likely start out with propane, but electric does have some appeal for the colder months. Is the only advantage of the electric element that it makes the kettle a self-contained unit?

 

[atoughram]

And it boils silently...

and it never makes you run to the store to pick up more propane in the middle of the boil...

and I'd assume that it's cheaper than propane to brew with, without taking into consideration the initial costs....

 

[Epos7]

And it boils silently...

and it never makes you run to the store to pick up more propane in the middle of the boil...

and I'd assume that it's cheaper than propane to brew with, without taking into consideration the initial costs....

Well yes, there are certainly those advantages of electric over propane. I'm asking specifically about any advantages of installing an electric element into a port in the kettle vs using an electric induction burner under the kettle.

Thanks!

 

[Yesfan]

Well yes, there are certainly those advantages of electric over propane. I'm asking specifically about any advantages of installing an electric element into a port in the kettle vs using an electric induction burner under the kettle.

Thanks!

My guess would be, with smaller batches the induction burner might be easier as there's no work involved with modifying the kettle. Larger batches, I wouldn't know if you could use a 10+ gallon kettle on some of those induction burner plates.


If you're looking at the 15 gallon Spike, or any 15 gallon kettle, I'd probably lean towards going with the element in a port.

 

[Epos7]

My guess would be, with smaller batches the induction burner might be easier as there's no work involved with modifying the kettle. Larger batches, I wouldn't know if you could use a 10+ gallon kettle on some of those induction burner plates.


If you're looking at the 15 gallon Spike, or any 15 gallon kettle, I'd probably lean towards going with the element in a port.

That makes sense - the 240v ULWD elements seem more readily available than 240v induction burners, and a 240v ULWD (not sure what this acronym means, but it is commonly used) element would certainly put out more heat than a 120v induction burner. My concern with the ULWD elements is that they may burn the wort, and also don't seem compatible with BIAB (the bag would likely hit the element, melting it if you had to apply more heat). Therefore I'm torn, as it seems that with the ULWD element I would be forced into a three vessel system whereas the induction burner would allow for BIAB brewing.

 

[Epos7]

Just heard back from Spike Brewing that their false bottom is not compatible with the tri-clamp ports. This means if I want to move to an all tri-clamp three vessel system, it wouldn't be possible with the Spike kettles.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I'm a keep it simple fan.

I don't understand how having tri clover fittings will make things any easier for a basic BIAB kettle? Slip a hose on the outflow and drain the kettle....sure they work great if you have a more complex system with plumbing, but you won't have that....

Save yourself some money, get a concord 12.5 gallon and add a valve. Jmo

Oh and a ratchet pulley ftw

 

[woo_pig]

You can always get a kettle with no ports and get them welded on.

 

[wilserbrewer]

You can always get a kettle with no ports and get them welded on.

Or you can use a kettle without ports and rack the chilled wort from the kettle, not a huge deal IMO, and the bonus is you don't have to clean a kettle valve periodically.

I vote no on the kettle mounted thermometer, some snag the grain bag and keep pulling with all their strength.

Easy to work around if your even half aware, but you'd be surprised what some manage lol.

 

[Epos7]

I'm a keep it simple fan.

I don't understand how having tri clover fittings will make things any easier for a basic BIAB kettle? Slip a hose on the outflow and drain the kettle....sure they work great if you have a more complex system with plumbing, but you won't have that....

Save yourself some money, get a concord 12.5 gallon and add a valve. Jmo

Oh and a ratchet pulley ftw

I definitely understand the appeal of keeping things simple. I think it's more likely than not that I'll just stick with BIAB, but I also like to tinker, so there's a non-zero chance I end up with a more complex system down the line. This is where the tri-clamp fittings come in. I like the capabilities of the "down under" single vessel recirculating systems, and may eventually look into putting something like that together.

We'll see, maybe I just need to abandon my tri clamp pipe dream It would make these decisions a lot easier and provide exponentially more options.

 

[Epos7]

I vote no on the kettle mounted thermometer, some snag the grain bag and keep pulling with all their strength.

Easy to work around if your even half aware, but you'd be surprised what some manage lol.

This is my concern as well. Is it useful to have a temp reading from lower in the kettle? I'll only be able to read near the surface with my Thermapen. If that will suffice, I'll probably skip the kettle thermometer.

 

[wilserbrewer]

I always stir well prior to taking a temp reading....average mash temp I guess, less false info that way

 

[dmcman73]

This is my concern as well. Is it useful to have a temp reading from lower in the kettle? I'll only be able to read near the surface with my Thermapen. If that will suffice, I'll probably skip the kettle thermometer.

I have a port as low as my drain valve on my electric kettle. Since you'll stir as you cool, you'll be able to monitor the temps.

If you want to use your thermapen, that's fine too but I like to have things hands free especially if your using an immersion chiller and need to stir the wort as it cools.

 

[dmcman73]

Look, you're already on the fence about if you're going to stick with BIAB or go three vessels.

1. Either get a cheap pot for now to brew BIAB

or

2. Get a pot with all the ports welded on for upgrading to a 3 vessel system up front. It will be cheaper and a lot less of a pain to have everything you may need welded on at the time of purchase and use plugs / blanks on the ports for the time being. Once you upgrade, pop the plugs out and you're half way there for the 3 vessel. You can even just go 2 vessel instead later on. Spike does an amazing job with the welding, they are top notch. Other welds I've seen done afterwords are a mess if you don't get a good stainless welder.

 

[Epos7]

Another update on the Spike kettle - the reason their false bottom isn't compatible with tri clamp fittings is simply that they don't make a tri clamp pickup tube that fits. NorCal Custom should be able to fabricate an pickup tube of the right dimensions pretty easily, so that would allow me to add the false bottom down the line if I so choose.

I think I'm going to go all out and get the 15 gallon Spike kettle with four tri clamp fittings. One will be a 2" fitting to add an ULWD element if I so chose in the future. The other three will be 1.5" fittings for the drain valve, thermometer, and whirlpool attachment. If I decide to add a plate chiller, I can pump wort out of the drain valve, and back into the whirlpool port. A kettle configured like this will allow me to BIAB for a while, and let me go in any direction in the future, either three vessels or a single vessel brew in a basket setup, which I'm leaning toward.

The only remaining question is where to locate the ports. I'll keep the drain fitting in the standard location, just need to decide what height to place the other three ports. Colorado Brewing Systems single vessel setups are pretty cool, and they seem to put everything at the same height as the drain valve.

 

[woo_pig]

Have you looked at the stout kettles

 

[Epos7]

Have you looked at the stout kettles

I did check them out, and their kettles look to be great quality. They don't make a kettle around 15 gallons, however, and I think I can get a better price on a similar quality kettle from Spike. The thing I like most about Spike is I can pick what ports I want and where I want them to be.

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Wanna get into brewing...wanna keep it simple..This is all you need to brew.Plus a homemade controller or propane..I've been making awesome beer with this setup for almost 2 years..EVERYTHING else is bells and whistles.You don't need tri clovers or false bottoms or anything. Get a good pot,a way to heat it and a bag..thats about it in a nutshell

 

[day_trippr]

Yeaahhhh....No.
My wife would be wearing my 'nads as ornaments...

Cheers!

 

[JONNYROTTEN]

Yeaahhhh....No.
My wife would be wearing my 'nads as ornaments...

Cheers!

HAHA...Its an old chair that would have gone to the curb...now its highly classy brew rig

 

[Sconnie12]

Wanna get into brewing...wanna keep it simple..This is all you need to brew.Plus a homemade controller or propane..I've been making awesome beer with this setup for almost 2 years..EVERYTHING else is bells and whistles.You don't need tri clovers or false bottoms or anything. Get a good pot,a way to heat it and a bag..thats about it in a nutshell

Assuming you think a radio, door locks and seat belts are also useless bells and whistles for a car??

 

[Epos7]

You don't need tri clovers or false bottoms or anything.

Who said anything about need?

I want tri clovers because I've worked with them before, they're durable enough to last the rest of my life, and are easier to clean and maintain.

Do think I'm going to skip the false bottom. Originally I thought I would move to a three vessel system in the future, but now I'm leaning heavily toward BIABasket system like the Nano Brewers sold by Colorado Brewing Supply.