Have I missed something important ? My second attempt at making cider.

[user 260118]

This is my second attempt at making cider. I decided to try and keep it simple. Sterilised carboy. Added approximately 5 US gallons of apple juice and a packed of yeast from home brew store. I let it ferment away - original gravity was 1050-1055-ish. Let it sit for 3-4 weeks. Got down to 1000 so I suspect 6-6.5% alcohol ? Put carboy in fridge for 3-4 days ( is this what people are calling "Crashing" ?). Transferred to 2nd carboy and topped up with another 3-4 pints apple juice. It began fermenting again in 2nd carboy. Let this go for a few days then bottled. Bottles are now in fridge. I have some questions and hopefully someone can give me some answers. Q1. I've used some plastic mineral water (Perrier brand) bottles as I ran out of beer bottles. Will this be ok ? I'm suspecting 2ndry fermentation in bottle will now be halted due to temperature in fridge being circa 4 Celsius. Q2. How long should I leave the cider sit before drinking ? I had some left over ( maybe 3/4 imperial pint) drank it today and it tasted just ok. It's near dry with a hint of sweetness but no noticeable apple taste.View media item 69803View media item 69802

 

[TechFanMD]

I'm not sure what your goal is. Why did you top up with apple juice? Are you looking for sweeter cider?

It sounds like you really want still cider (non carbonated) and just added the juice to fill the head space in the secondary vessel. You probably should have let that sit at least another day or so. You'll probably be OK, but might have some carbonation if it hadn't finished fermenting the additional juice (though it was probably finished).

Store bought apple juice with no sugars added before fermentation will ferment down and not taste like a whole lot. The store bought apple juice gets stripped of a lot of the flavor through fermentation. You kind of have to look for an apple flavor. A lot of people (mostly who keg) backsweeten with frozen apple juice concentrate or other juices to impart more flavor. To backsweeten you would have to stabilize (potassium sorbate and potassium metabisulfate) so that it stops fermentation and the yeast don't just ferment the additional sugar/juice added. Backsweetening and bottling without stabilizing will result in bottle bombs. To backsweeten AND carbonate you either have to keg, or be willing to heat pasteurize in the bottle (never tried heat pasteurizing but it does not sound fun at all).

Any sanitized bottle that you can get a good seal on and which can handle the pressure will be fine. You can re-use plastic soda (pop) bottles as well, as they can also handle normal carbonation pressures.

FWIW, and I don't know what yeast you used, 3-4 weeks might not be long enough. That is really cloudy, so it looks like the yeast has not fallen out of suspension. If you had left it for another few weeks I think you would find that it would clear and taste better. Since you kicked fermentation back up with the addition of juice, you re-set the clock a bit on how long it will take to clear. It is very 'young' and needs some time.

The picture is basically the same thing you did but I have 5 gallons. I started this 10/6/18 with Montrachet yeast. This still needs some time to fully clear, or have fining agents added to speed up the process.

 

[user 260118]

Thanks TechFanMD for your prompt and detailed reply. As you surmised I basically added the additional juice to fill up the head space which resulted in the fermentation starting again. I'll leave it for a while (maybe test 1 bottle on the 10th of the month so I'm leaving 4 weeks between tests). The first batch I made ( several years ago) seemed to take for ever ( 3+ months) to stop fermenting. I'll just be patient. Where did you get your apple juice i.e. was it store bought ?

 

[TechFanMD]

Good luck! I think it really tastes better about 30 days after clearing.

The key- make more right away, and keep it going. The easiest way to leave it alone and give it time is to have plenty aging. They sell 5 gallon food grade (the white ones, HDPE) and lids in the paint section of most Walmart stores for about $5. This is a bucket that holds 5gal to the rim, so you can only really ferment about 4 gallons of cider or 3-4 gallons of beer depending on other factors. Drill a hole in the lid and fit an airlock (add a gasket to the hole if you can, but it isn't essential) and you'll have a second fermenter to keep you going.

I love making cider, but it is a longer game than I like. I can drink a lot of my beers in 10-20 days from brew day to carbed and drinking (kegging). Cider takes me closer to 45-60 days. I'm looking at using a different yeast, because the Montrachet just doesn't seem to drop out for me very well even though I haven't heard that complaint from others. I am going to try an ale yeast, likely S05 since I can get it cheaper and have very good luck with it in ales.

 

[user 260118]

Cheers ! I manged to pick up four glass 5 gallon carboys for $10 each so I can get another couple going and leave them alone. There is a guy flogging apples out of a shipping container at the other end of the village - I'll approach him about buying juice directly from him. The area I live in used to be famous for apples but a lot of orchards have been turned into vineyards. I used champagne yeast the first time -the cider came out at around 9%-10% alcohol. Very dry.

 

[user 260118]

Quick update - three weeks on. It's clearing somewhat. There is stuff in bottom of bottle. Tasted one last night - was originally going to use it for cooking. Gently poured in to pint glass leaving residue behind. Had a taste - oops all of a sudden glass was empty and I hadn't taken a picture - cooking plans changed slightly.

 

[Csspecs]

Ok I'm a total noob, but I'm currently typing this a little buzzed on some really nice cider that is like 16 days old.

My recipe is:
5 gallons cheap sams club apple juice with just vitamin C.
Yeast EC-1118
5 TSP Yeast nutrient
3 TSP Pectic enzyme
OG=1050 FG=1000 which was bone dry, like licking a green lemon.
back sweetened with 5 cans apple concentrate. Heat pasteurized to 165F in a large stock pot (which we think cooked off some methanol) and dumped into a 5 gallon torpedo keg and force carbonated at 30 psi after cold.. Dispensed at 10 psi.

It is around 6.5% and is really sweet with very little booze taste.. I find it sneaks up on you really fast, like one minute your fine and the next morning your in your front yard looking for your keys and clothes.

 

[dmf38]

Young, 'green' cider never has much apple aroma or flavor. You need to age it in the secondary carboy for at least 6 months, and the apple flavor will come back. I just bottled some that I aged for a year, and the apple declares its rightful place.

 

[user 260118]

Young, 'green' cider never has much apple aroma or flavor. You need to age it in the secondary carboy for at least 6 months, and the apple flavor will come back. I just bottled some that I aged for a year, and the apple declares its rightful place.

Yeah I think I should have left it in carboy a lot longer. Next "official" taste test is Dec 10th (I'm leaving >30 days between taste tests). TBH it wasn't that bad - I'm used to a very dry cider and I could quite happily drink this as is. I have it in PET bottles in my beer fridge ( 31 imperial pints near 5 US gallons). Wondering if it will be "aged" in the same manner in PET bottles as carboy ?

 

[user 260118]

Still a wee bit puzzled about the basics. I don't intend using a KEG. So here's what I did and what I intend to do (pending comments/ advice recieved).

Soon as Christmas is out the way I want to make a few more batches. I'm wondering if I missed something in the process I used ? Which basically was added yeast , ferment , after 30 days siphoned into 2nd carboy , after 30 days, cold crashed 4 days then bottled. Bottles have some sediment in bottom - suspect a little bit of fermentation still going on even in fridge - or is it dead yeast/ apple solids dropping out ?

Next time I think these are the steps ? Any suggestions / comments gratefully received !

1. Add Camden tables.
2. Let sit for a few days
3. Add Pectic Enzyme
4. Let sit for a day
5. Add yeast
6. Let ferment until required alcohol level ( what should i do to stop fermentation - last time I let it get to 1.000 from 1.055. )

7. Siphon into 2nd carboy
8. Leave for a long time
9. Cold crash
10. Bottle ( should I be adding sugar at this point for bottle carbonation ?)

Just got a fancy sous-vide wand - has anyone used this for in- bottle pasteurisation ?

If you do bottle pasteurisation - do you get sediment in bottom ?

Thanks !

 

[dmf38]

It's all explained in the good stickys at the beginning of this forum. This is basically how I do it:


1. Add Camden tables.
2. Let sit for 12 hours.
3. Add Pectic Enzyme.
4. Let sit for 12 hours.
5. Then I use a sanitized glass measuring cup to scoop out a cup or two of the juice, and stir in yeast nutrient and yeast energizer until it's dissolved. Pour it back into the fermenter and stir, then add the yeast.

It might take a couple days to start fermenting. Keep it at the correct temperature for your yeast, maybe the low 70s. After the yeast really takes off I lower the temperature to the low 60s. Leave it for a month and check to see that's it's done fermenting. Then transfer to 2nd carboy and age. During this time it will clear so there's no need to cold crash. After several months I add some erythritol sweetener and bottle.

 

[madscientist451]

It all starts with the apples....seek out some late season cider from your local orchards. Put a funnel in the 5 gallon carboy and dump 3.5 gallons of the local cider in, add 71-B yeast or whatever is your favorite. When its done fermenting, let it settle a while and then rack to a 3 gallon carboy. Let it sit in a cold basement until spring.
It should be clear by then.
Get 1/2 gallon mason jars at Walmart and add 1-2 cups of Jack Daniels oak smoking chips and 1-2 shots of decent bourbon and then add the finished cider. Let it sit another month, the bourbon/oak character makes a huge difference.

 

[ebbelwoi]

Regarding pectic enzyme: you're using Sam's apple juice... is it clear to start with? If so, you don't need the pectinase.

 

[Csspecs]

Regarding pectic enzyme: you're using Sam's apple juice... is it clear to start with? If so, you don't need the pectinase.

That was me not the OP.
Yeah I'll probably drop that in the future. Before I found this forum I was getting information off a youtube. The information was not totally wrong but not perfectly clear as to the why and how.. Clear juices have already processed so there is no need for the enzyme.

We did a few small test batches with multiple juices of different pricing and sources and I could not really detect a difference in flavor. However it seems that long term aging would return some of the flavors which could make the differences more detectable.

 

[user 260118]

Home made cider getting final taste test before Christmas. Pleasantly surprised with final result. It's not sweet but slightly tart. Don't think it will ever go completely clear as it came from store bought apple juice that wasn't clear and I didn't add anything to clear it. Before I bottled it ABV was 6.5% ( OG 1055-ish FG 1000) . Added wee bit of sugar before bottling and cold crashed it in beer fridge in garage. This wee bit of sugar might have pushed it up to 7%. Will do hydrometer reading next week. Hardly any carbonation in bottle ( should have let bottles sit for a few days before cold crashing). Thanks for your comments. BTW I've moved some bottles out of fridge and will leave for a while in 60+ deg cupboard under stair to see if this will re-activate yeast in bottle and start carbonation - should I gives the bottles a shake ?

 

[z-bob]

@AndyBhoy: I just found this thread. I make cider from store-bought filtered apple juice quite often. You don't need campden tablets or pectic enzymes, but you do kinda need yeast nutrient. I use 1/2 tsp of nutrient per gallon of juice (the label says to use 1 tsp per gallon.) I also like to add just a little sugar during fermentation; maybe 2 or 3 ounces per gallon but that's optional. You don't want to go very high with the sugar because you're trading apple flavor for alcohol. I also don't "crash" mine, I'm not sure what you were doing at that step. The cider will clear on its own, it just needs time. It usually doesn't taste like much at the cloudy stage where you poured your first glass back in November.

Sometimes I transfer to a secondary carboy (and top up with apple juice) and sometimes I just leave it in the primary for a month or two until it's done. Then I bottle, priming with sugar like I was bottle conditioning beer. Someday I will try using frozen apple juice concentrate for priming.

What yeast are you using? I've had good luck with Cotes de Blanc (sp?), AW4, and S-33. I just bought 10 packets of K1-V1116 really cheap so I will be trying that one again. The one-gallon batch I made with kveik yeast was finished very quickly but didn't have much flavor. It did have potential, and I should try that again and let the bottles age a little longer before I drink them.

 

[user 260118]

Hi z-Bob thanks for commenting. I thought the "cold crashing" was going to dramatically stop the yeast from continuing fermentation in bottles so I didn't have to bottle pasteurise. I hope someone can correct me if I'm wrong. I can't remember what yeast I used - I had tried Cotes de Blanc / champagne yeast for my first batch a few years ago and it didn't seem want to stop fermenting in secondary - had steady bubbles for months - ended up at 9.5-10 % ABV. Local HBS didn't have any this time so I just used what they recommended. I remember I used a yeast nutrient the first time and as I didn't want the final ABV to be as high this time I left nutrient out. The O.G. of the apple juice was 1055 without adding sugar.

Enjoying reading this forum - loads of helpful people out there.

 

[z-bob]

Cold crashing drops a lot of the yeast out, so your cider (or beer) is nice and clear. But it doesn't drop all of it out, and the yeast will drop out anyway with enough time. Do you want sparkling cider, or still cider? I like sparkling so I assume that's what everybody wants If you want it still, that's easier; let the cider ferment all the way dry and start to clear on its own. Use Sparklloid to drop the rest of the yeast out. Add Campden tablets and potassium sorbate (I can't tell you how much because I don't know) to kill whatever yeast is left, then you can sweeten it with sugar or honey or concentrated apple juice and it won't ferment in the bottles.

Don't forget that you can sweeten it at serving time. I like my cider sparkling and dry, but I sometimes pour just a little in the glass, muddle a sugar cube in it, then pour the rest.

Yours may have bubbled for months but it didn't end up at 9+ percent. There wasn't that much sugar in the juice to start with unless you added some

 

[MarkKF]

Just remember you can cold crash & rack and you’ll stop fermentation (if it’s not already finished) but given time if it’s not near freezing or not treated with sorbates and there is any residual sugar the yeast will wake up & reproduce.

 

[user 260118]

Thanks for everyone's comments. I seem to remember I added sugar on my first attempt which accounts for the 9+ % alcohol at the end. I also added two packets of champagne style yeast.

This second attempt is working out quite well. Tried a bottle today after taking down outside Christmas lights. It had best level of carbonation so far.