Has anyone ever smoked extract or does anyone sell it?

[SilentAutumn]

I've been looking at a few recipes, particularly this one that calls for smoked wheat. I haven't seen or heard of smoked extract commercially available and haven't read anyone attempting to smoke extract. So, has anyone tried it?

I've read a few threads about people boiling over an open camp fire and their beer getting smoke flavor. But oak smoking malt is different than getting campfire smoke flavors. So what about smoking extract before using it in beer? Seems plausible. Would the pre-boil heat denature the extract in anyway? Seems simple enough that I'm probably overlooking something.

 

[Arneba28]

Why dont you steep some smoked malt. The DME will just melt I would imagine once it gets hot enough to smoke. Unless you have a cold smoker.

 

[bernerbrau]

It seems you're a little confused.

This is an all-grain recipe and it's referring to smoked malted grains, not smoked malt extract. Instead of kiln-drying the malt, they burn wood for smoke to dry them instead. If you had a fine mesh metal screen you could probably put some white wheat malt in a smoker at a very low temperature with the wood you want, then steep it with smoked malt in 150-degree water for 30 minutes before bringing to boil and adding extract.

I don't see how you could smoke malt extract, as it's either liquid or powder. There's also no way to "denature" extract as it's already fully converted.

 

[remilard]

Weyermann makes a smoked extract. Never seen it for sale anywhere though.

 

[bernerbrau]

If smoking your own grains is too much hassle, you might try adding some Liquid Smoke.

 

[SilentAutumn]

I wasn't very clear in my first post. I realize the recipe in the link is an all grain. I use extract on my stove. All grain is not an option at this time.

I'm looking at doing an all wheat beer. I was thinking of just taking liquid wheat syrup, dumping it into a big aluminum catering pan to increase surface area, putting in the barbecue with smoked oak chips for about an hour. Maybe stirring the extract every 15 minutes or so. I would think it should pick up some oak smoke that would carry over to the beer.

I thought about steeping some smoked malt, but from what I've seen, it's beechwood smoked and not oak.

 

[IrregularPulse]

I'd buy a pound or wheat, and smoke it yourself, then smoke with whatever wood you want ans steep that like you would any other grains in an extract recipe.

 

[Ravio11i]

I tried to smoke some once but it was hard to keep lit, melted and dripped on my pants, gave me a headache, and stunk up the house...I'd stay away from that...

 

[weirdboy]

I would try liquid smoke before trying to smoke extract.

 

[remilard]

I wasn't very clear in my first post. I realize the recipe in the link is an all grain. I use extract on my stove. All grain is not an option at this time.

I'm looking at doing an all wheat beer. I was thinking of just taking liquid wheat syrup, dumping it into a big aluminum catering pan to increase surface area, putting in the barbecue with smoked oak chips for about an hour. Maybe stirring the extract every 15 minutes or so. I would think it should pick up some oak smoke that would carry over to the beer.

I thought about steeping some smoked malt, but from what I've seen, it's beechwood smoked and not oak.

Are there any 100% wheat extracts to try to smoke? Most I have seen are like 40% barley.

In either case, this is the type of recipe that should motivate people to add all-grain to the repertoire. Assuming you can do full boils you can BIAB this for about $5 in material from a fabric store and an hour or so of your time.

I suspect you won't get a great result trying to do this with extract.

 

[unionrdr]

So far I've found & used mesquite,hickory,& apple smoke extract. I'm talking about the little bottles in the store. I was just musing...maybe 1TBS in my 23L batch? I'd also think using an amber ale recipe would get something like a rouchbeir? Just thinkin out loud...interesting idea.

 

[android]

I tried to smoke some once but it was hard to keep lit, melted and dripped on my pants, gave me a headache, and stunk up the house...I'd stay away from that...

my thoughts exactly. :cross:

 

[Golddiggie]

I think you're going to have a hard time keeping the extract lit in the papers...

On a more serious note, you could try the already mentioned liquid smoke (either sold or make your own), smoke some grain and steep that, or even try putting the brew on some oak cubes/chips for a spell... If you don't want to use oak, then you could try toasting some wood cubes on your own. I would just be sure to watch that like a hawk, at least the first time you do it. You need to get the same toast level on all sides of the cubes. I would also not use a torch or direct flame on the wood... Use a sheet pan (or partial size sheet pan) in the bbq/grill (so you're outside) and be sure to flip the cubes around as they toast...

Of course, it would be easier if we could see how the big boys do it and see if we can adapt that method to our own scale... I suspect they use a rotating heated tube to pass the wood down, at either a said rate, or temperature, for the toast level. That way, they get consistent results in each batch. The closest we could probably come would be to rig up something for use on a rotisserie to keep the cubes/chips moving while hitting them with heat... Hmmm, I actually have the motor and such from one of my grills for a rotisserie... Might be worth looking into using for that... OR I could play with fly sparging with it (when I have the room).

 

[SilentAutumn]

Are there any 100% wheat extracts to try to smoke? Most I have seen are like 40% barley.

In either case, this is the type of recipe that should motivate people to add all-grain to the repertoire. Assuming you can do full boils you can BIAB this for about $5 in material from a fabric store and an hour or so of your time.

I suspect you won't get a great result trying to do this with extract.

Yeah, most wheat extracts are a 60/40 mix (I've seen 65/35 and 55/45). So "all wheat" is relative. From the recipe I linked:

About recipe, the hardest thing is that Grodziskie was made of 100% smoked (oak) wheat malt... So many of us use wheat malt + smoked barley malt, but some of us smoke wheat malt on their own.

I'd like to stay away from liquid smoke. I'm not a fan of chemical flavor extracts if I can imbue the flavor naturally (plus I get to try something new!).

From the all grain recipe to make a 2-3% ABV beer:
smoked barley malt - 3.3lb
wheat malt 1kg - 2.2lb

I'm looking to make about a 5% ABV beer (so more malt flavor to compete with). Looking at 6# Wheat liquid extract and 1# wheat dry extract. Any suggestions on how much store bought smoked malt to steep with (this would be the beechwood smoked)? I've never used them before.

Obviously if I smoked my own grain, there are a whole host of variables regarding steeping.

 

[Golddiggie]

I think you don't understand how most liquid smokes are made... It's a 100% natural process. In simplest terms, you have your smoker/smoke source, with a smoke stack at some point. On (at the end) the stack you fit an inverted bowl, or cone, that you apply ice, or cold liquid to in order to form condensation of the smoke. You then have a vessel under it in order to catch the dripping condensation that you later bottle up... You can do it at home (Alton Brown did it in one episode) for use in recipes that you don't/can't actually smoke.

 

[SilentAutumn]

I think you don't understand how most liquid smokes are made... It's a 100% natural process. In simplest terms, you have your smoker/smoke source, with a smoke stack at some point. On (at the end) the stack you fit an inverted bowl, or cone, that you apply ice, or cold liquid to in order to form condensation of the smoke. You then have a vessel under it in order to catch the dripping condensation that you later bottle up... You can do it at home (Alton Brown did it in one episode) for use in recipes that you don't/can't actually smoke.

No kidding? That sounds cool. I have to look that up.

 

[Golddiggie]

I plan to make some myself once I get a new smoker, which will be after I've moved... I'm planning on doing it during a cooking session, while adding the flavor woods. Since I usually do that for about 2-4 hours of the cook time, I should get a decent amount of liquid smoke... Of course, that will depend on how often I open the thing up. I'm hoping to be able to get a smoker where the stack won't move.

Something along these lines...

 

[weirdboy]

++ liquid smoke is not a "chemical"

 

[erikpete18]

Yeah, most wheat extracts are a 60/40 mix (I've seen 65/35 and 55/45). So "all wheat" is relative.

You say you can't go all-grain, but have you considered partial mashing? I'm in the same boat (not enough room, can't boil 5 gal anyways), and it was recipes like this that shifted me to partial mashing. Take a look at DeathBrewer's partial mash pictorial. Since you've already got a boil kettle, for the cost of a paint strainer bag (about $5 for two) you can do partial mashes.

I just heat my water up, mash in, and throw my pot in an oven I've pre-heated to the lowest setting and then turned off. Let that go for an hour and you're done. I think if you smoked your own wheat malt and then mashed it, you'd be good to go and might be able to get to ~75% wheat. Just a thought, feel free to ignore!

 

[SilentAutumn]

Thanks for the advice so far. Liquid smoke in an oak flavor doesn't seem to be too common (or readily available?). So I did some more digging and I think I can do this. Let me run this by you folks and see what you think.

I plan on cold smoking some wheat malt using this kludge so I don't inadvertently toast the grains. I'll mist/moisten the grain 12 hours or so before smoking to help them pick up the smoke. Then I'll partial mash this grain. I ran my recipe through Beer Calculus:

OG: 1.053
FG: 1.013
SRM: 4
IBU: 27.2
ABV: 5.3%
YEAST: Wyeast Weihenstephan Weizen (3068)

Partial mash 2# smoked pale wheat malt

3.3# Liquid wheat extract at 60
2# Dry wheat extract at flameout

1.5 oz Tettnang at 60
0.5 oz Tettnang at 30

 

[Golddiggie]

You could make a mini liquid smoke generator too, if you have a grill (of any kind)... Or just scale up what was on that site, so that you can capture the smoke, instead of just using it once to smoke the malt... Probably be able to do it on a stove, if you have a vented hood (to get rid of the excess smoke)...

I think adding a small amount of liquid smoke would give you the flavors, without the headache of trying to smoke a small amount of grain. At least without being able to see how someone has actually done it before. The amount of liquid smoke you would probably want to add, would be a fraction of an ounce (IMO)... Besides, you can add some, let it blend a while (a few days to a week) then taste and see if you need to add more... I believe most recipes use a few drops at a time (depending on batch size)...

 

[passedpawn]

3068 and smoke? good luck. does not sound good to me.

 

[Golddiggie]

3068 and smoke? good luck. does not sound good to me.

Going to have to agree with you there... After looking at the yeast description, the smoke flavor would probably overwhelm what the yeast would give you. At which point, you'd be better off using something that doesn't give any flavors to the brew at all.

 

[remilard]

Schlenkerla and Spezial make smoked wheat beers with German wheat beer yeast. I like them.

That said, it's wrong for gratzer.

 

[Zamial]

Why don't you buy a pound of crushed 2-row, spread it on a cookie sheet and smoke them with whatever wood you want? This will also toast the grains but that would not lend to a bad flavor when mixing it with a smoked flavor. Then just steep them like a normal steeping grain?

GL.

 

[buffalobrewer]

I think you're going to have a hard time keeping the extract lit in the papers...

at first glance I thought it was heading that way too!

 

[SilentAutumn]

Went to the LHBS after work and ran it by a few people there. Funny thing, the yeast was discussed as well.

This will be the attempt:

Oak smoke 2# wheat malt (and since it's cold smoke, I'll cold smoke some cheese on the grill at the same time!)

OG: 1.049 (that's 60% efficiency, I'd like to think I can do better)
FG: 1.012
SRM: 6
IBU: 26.1
ABV: 4.9%
YEAST: Dry - Danstar Munich Wheat

Partial mash:
2# smoked wheat
2.5# wheat malt
0.5# 6 row

3# Dry wheat extract (65/35 blend) at flameout

1.5 oz Tettnang (3.9%) at 60
0.5 oz Tettnang (3.9%) at 45

This a real experiment on my part. Don't know how it will come out. I figure there are 3 possible outcomes:

a) I can't taste the smoke, but this is an awesome wheat! Sorry you wasted all that time smoking the grain.
b) Wow, this smoked wheat is a great beer! Glad you went through the trouble of smoking the grain.
c) This tastes like a damn campfire! Why did you do that?

 

[Zamial]

OG: 1.049 (that's 60% efficiency, I'd like to think I can do better)
FG: 1.012


Partial mash:
2# smoked wheat
2.5# wheat malt
0.5# 6 row

Just a few things I see here:

1. That is an odd way to calc a OG and a pretty low FG. Extract normally stop at about 1.020 or just a tad under that but YMMV.

2. Please use some rice hulls. That much wheat with that little of 2 row is asking for a brew day full of new swear words...they are cheap and will ensure good drainage with no added flavors.

Other than that, looks good and GL!

 

[SilentAutumn]

My extracts typically drop to 1.01 or 1.008. I take beer calculus with a grain of salt.

But I went ahead and tried it. I adjusted the kludge smoker (which I later moved between the pans). I used two cans that could telescope inside each other so I could put in more wood chips, but allowed enough space for air/smoke flow.

I left the grain on the grill for 5 hours. It was a very windy day yesterday so the chamber was clearing at times, but there was constant smoke from the cans. This was a nice low smoke. I left the cheese on for 2 hours and it came out delicious. Also, didn't have time to get to the hardware store for some sections of screen, so just used baking sheets, stirring the grain every 20-30 minutes or so. I guess it would best be described as a "tang" on smoke. The oak is pretty straightforward.

And as a bit of forecasting, I ate a banana while working around the the smoke. It wasn't bad tasting. I think it's going to be an interesting beer.

I already mashed and I'm boiling now. Before the hops, every once in a while I would get a nice whiff of smoke aroma. Can only wait and see what happens now.

 

[robtotten]

Smoked extract? Oh ****. How am I drivin' man?

 

[Ultima]

I've never smoked extract, but I know a guy who can get it real cheap...just sayin'

Hops, on the other hand... : X

 

[unionrdr]

Up in smoke,that's where my barley goes...