Gushers. Causes?

[rodwha]

My wife had me brew her a cranberry spruce tip IPA. I told her I wasn’t familiar with brewing with cranberries and to figure that part out. We bought fresh cranberries. She simmered them and placed them in a bag in the fridge until brew day. They were added at flameout.

It was never a good beer but now, after 3 months, they slowly gush after a bit. My initial thoughts are infection as that’s what I’ve read causes gushers. Is it possible it’s something else?

And at this point, especially as I don’t know which fermenter I used, I’m contemplating replacing those, my siphon and hose, bottling wand, and bottling bucket.

 

[marjen]

Probably fermentation from the cranberries. Can happen a lot with fruit beers.

 

[rodwha]

Probably fermentation from the cranberries. Can happen a lot with fruit beers.

And that can cause a delayed slow gush?

 

[rodwha]

Was figuring I’d soak all of those bottles in bleach water too.

 

[brownni5]

And that can cause a delayed slow gush?

Yup, more fermentation from the fruit. Sometimes I get slow gushers when I push the carb limits in my saisons.

I wouldn't worry about an infection unless it tastes weird. No need to soak the bottles in bleach. As long as they're clean, regular sanitation will take care of any problems you may have.

 

[Jag75]

I'm not sure it's from the cranberries , being that they were used in the boil .What was your ingredients and process from grain to bottling day?

 

[Dave Sarber]

I'd vote for incomplete fermentation.

 

[rodwha]

7 lbs pale ale
2.75 lbs white wheat
1.5 lbs carared
1 oz Midnight Wheat
Rice hulls
3 lbs simmered cranberries @FO
1 oz spruce tips @30 mins & FO
0.125 oz Columbus FWH
1 oz Columbus/Simcoe @ 15 mins
1.5 oz Columbus/Simcoe WP
1.375 oz Columbus/5.5 oz Simcoe dry hop
US-05

Fermented for 3 weeks, bottle conditioned for 3 weeks. Eventually had issues with the siphon so it was a little over carbed. This was brewed on 11-7-19 so it’s about 3 months old now.

 

[rodwha]

Oh, I also had an issue with the large tea baskets I used for dry hopping and whirlpools. They were floating so it certainly didn’t contribute much aroma.

 

[Dave Sarber]

You need to look at your mash schedule, and fermentation schedule. Also, normal practice for fruit is to freeze it first, not for bacteria, but the water in the pulp will burst the cell walls when freezing. Simmering may do that too, I'm not sure about that.
Either way, from fruit, or from an accelerated fermentation schedule, (bottling too soon), you have an incomplete fermentation before bottling. Another possibility is too much priming sugar.

 

[bracconiere]

after i had liver problems from drinking a gusher for two days, this thread is making me nervous...but my gushers were more then likely fusarium on homemalt....

 

[Jag75]

I'm not 100% sure but I would think that tossing in cranberries at flameout would kill any possible bacteria that could have been on them. Being 3 weeks in the fermenter I would think that the fermentation was done , however I had 1 brew that lagged and took about 24 days . If you were certain fermentation was complete before bottling then it could be over priming due to the siphon issue . I'm guessing you didnt get all the beer siphoned to the bottle bucket , but I wouldn't think that would make that big of a difference ( depending on the amount). Is it every bottle you open gush ? How much priming sugar did you use ? Diastaticus yeast ? Could the bottles or the bottling wand , tube been infected?

 

[Jag75]

after i had liver problems from drinking a gusher for two days, this thread is making me nervous...but my gushers were more then likely fusarium on homemalt....

Huh ???

 

[bucketnative]

@Jag75 mentioned diastaticus variant yeast as a potential cause. Have you made any saisons in this equipment recently? It can be tough to get rid of all traces of the diastaticus, particularly from plastic components. Bottling an IPA after a saison could lead to a small amount of contamination from diastaticus in some or all bottles, and that will very slowly munch on higher-order sugars over time (long after the priming sugar is consumed). I suspect that this has caused me issues in the past when doing IPAs after saisons on the same equipment. I use separate equipment for Belle Saison yeast, now. Pretty much the same mechanism as for a bacterial infection.

Look for any stains or biofilms in your hoses, siphon, or wand. Plastic is cheap, and it can be replaced when it can no longer be effectively cleaned or sanitized.

Is it every bottle? If not, it could be incomplete mixing of priming sugar in the bottling bucket (assuming you batch primed). I had a batch where the final six bottles were gushing, the rest were all fine. I remember the last bit of beer in the bottling bucket being very sweet (I tasted it), and I assumed that the last bottles to fill would be overcarbed... yup they were.

 

[rodwha]

You need to look at your mash schedule, and fermentation schedule. Also, normal practice for fruit is to freeze it first, not for bacteria, but the water in the pulp will burst the cell walls when freezing. Simmering may do that too, I'm not sure about that.
Either way, from fruit, or from an accelerated fermentation schedule, (bottling too soon), you have an incomplete fermentation before bottling. Another possibility is too much priming sugar.

Simmering them, as SWMBO said, does indeed burst the walls.

There was certainly too much priming sugar for the 2.4 vols I was after as the siphon got plugged up and quit after I transferred maybe 3/4 of it.

 

[rodwha]

I'm not 100% sure but I would think that tossing in cranberries at flameout would kill any possible bacteria that could have been on them. Being 3 weeks in the fermenter I would think that the fermentation was done , however I had 1 brew that lagged and took about 24 days . If you were certain fermentation was complete before bottling then it could be over priming due to the siphon issue . I'm guessing you didnt get all the beer siphoned to the bottle bucket , but I wouldn't think that would make that big of a difference ( depending on the amount). Is it every bottle you open gush ? How much priming sugar did you use ? Diastaticus yeast ? Could the bottles or the bottling wand , tube been infected?

I was one point high on the FG so I figured it was done as being slightly off isn’t uncommon.

I used 116 grams of cane sugar to produce 2.4 vols of carbonation. There was a lot of trub so I reduced what I figured the volume would be to 4.75 gals. This was a 5.25 gal batch.

For whatever reason she didn’t pour her beer in a glass. After un unknown amount of time (maybe 5 mins, maybe longer) she noticed it was slowly bubbling out. She had drank one but 3 of them did this so she got into my commercial beers. She felt it seemed a little off but that could well be due to her freaking out on it. They never were that good to begin with, but I had told her not to make an IPA out of it, that she wouldn’t likely notice the spruce and maybe not the cranberries. But she was adamant...

I’ve only used US-05 that I harvested and keep going as I found I liked it better than the WLP-001 I used to use.

I suppose it’s possible the wand or siphon were infected. I have all new stuff in my MoreBeer cart.

 

[rodwha]

@Jag75 mentioned diastaticus variant yeast as a potential cause. Have you made any saisons in this equipment recently? It can be tough to get rid of all traces of the diastaticus, particularly from plastic components. Bottling an IPA after a saison could lead to a small amount of contamination from diastaticus in some or all bottles, and that will very slowly munch on higher-order sugars over time (long after the priming sugar is consumed). I suspect that this has caused me issues in the past when doing IPAs after saisons on the same equipment. I use separate equipment for Belle Saison yeast, now. Pretty much the same mechanism as for a bacterial infection.

Look for any stains or biofilms in your hoses, siphon, or wand. Plastic is cheap, and it can be replaced when it can no longer be effectively cleaned or sanitized.

Is it every bottle? If not, it could be incomplete mixing of priming sugar in the bottling bucket (assuming you batch primed). I had a batch where the final six bottles were gushing, the rest were all fine. I remember the last bit of beer in the bottling bucket being very sweet (I tasted it), and I assumed that the last bottles to fill would be overcarbed... yup they were.

I recently noticed the tubing on my bottling wand is stained and scrubbing it with OxyClean and a keg tubing brush did not remove it. It’s a few years old by now.

 

[rodwha]

Thing is is that I’ve not noticed this issue before, though in the past I’ve had issues with darker beers changing taste a bit after about a month. I’ve figured it was due to oxidation, though I wouldn’t call it a wet cardboard flavor. It’s more like a dried fruit-like flavor which I read can also be an oxidation flavor. I’ve often given her those beers to cook with. Had a couple in the pantry for years she forgot about, opened one and a gusher. Same with the next couple so we dumped them. I shocked all of my stuff assuming infection. I don’t see this happening, but then my beers don’t generally last much longer than a month or so, and it’s never been with anything but darker beers. I had wondered about pH issues with the flavor but I don’t think that’s something that develops over time.

 

[wstumper]

Is it every bottle? If not, it could be incomplete mixing of priming sugar in the bottling bucket (assuming you batch primed). I had a batch where the final six bottles were gushing, the rest were all fine. I remember the last bit of beer in the bottling bucket being very sweet (I tasted it), and I assumed that the last bottles to fill would be overcarbed... yup they were.

I had this happen to 1 bottle of a Pale Ale out of 14...so far...still have 15 to go. Opened it up in the kitchen. All over the paper shade over the sink, kitchen cabinets, and counter top! Boy, was that exciting! The wife, surprisingly, thought it was funny. Fortunately, the kitchen is getting a complete remodeling in a month of so.

This bottle was part of the last 6 bottled. None of the others gushed. (I did not chill the bottle after 3 weeks of conditioning.) Suspect this was an instance of incomplete mixing of priming sugar at the bottom of my bottling bucket.

 

[brownni5]

I'm not sure it's from the cranberries , being that they were used in the boil .What was your ingredients and process from grain to bottling day?

Missed that - whoops. No, not the berries. Kind of a lot of new information presented here though... Lots of possibilities.

 

[tellyho]

This happens to me when I bottle in the winter (stored in 50 degree basement) and open in the summer (55-60 degree basement). The difference in storage conditions changes how much co2 is happily in solution.

 

[rodwha]

No temp swings for me. I ferment a week at 65* then at room temp for the next 2 weeks, as well as while bottled (72-74* in the winter and 74-76* the rest of the time - one looooong summer in TX).