Guinness clone with honey, how?

[tljljc]

I want to brew a guinness clone which i have done before but i always thought that a slight bit more of sweetness in a guinness would be good. Since there are coffee like flavors in guinness and i love clover honeybin my coffee i thought honey might be a good idea.

How would i add honey and keep the flavor?
When do i add the honey?
And how much honey for a 5 gallon BIAB brew?

Thank you guys for any help you can give me!
Tom

 

[DBhomebrew]

You'd need a lot of honey for the flavor to come though a stout. Being a highly fermentable sugar, that much would just dry out the beer even more. No honey sweetness would be left at all. Honey malt might be a better path.

Guinness is by style a dry stout. Maybe give an export a try? Or an English stout or porter?

 

[VikeMan]

The sugars in honey will ferment out, so while you can get honey flavor/aroma, it won't really add sweetness. That said...

How would i add honey and keep the flavor?
When do i add the honey?

The later the better. Adding at high krausen or a little after are probably the best bets for retaining the most flavor/aroma. Adding at the most active part of fermentation ensures the honey will be well mixed with the wort/beer. Adding a little later will retain more flavor/aroma, but it will probably take longer for the honey to mix/dissolve/ferment.

Boiling will result in the loss of a lot of volatile compounds. Some will say that you need to at least pasteurize the honey to reduce the risk of contamination, but I haven't found this to be an issue. How many unheated meads have been made without issue? Almost all of them.

And how much honey for a 5 gallon BIAB brew?

I would start with one pound minimum for probably a subtle flavor. But it might not really come through at that level. Also consider that some honeys have stronger flavors than others.

 

[ghpeel]

I put 3lbs of good Florida honey into a pale ale once. Poured right into the fermenter near the end of primary. The carboy smelled like you stuck your head up a bee's ass (in a good way) when it was done. However, that honey aroma is delicate and could be lost in a roasty beer like a Guinness. I'd start off by using Honey Malt first to see if that gets you were you want to be. Maybe like 6-8oz in a 5gal batch. Its a kind of a crystal malt (I think) so it should leave some sweetness as well as honey flavor.

 

[VikeMan]

I'd start off by using Honey Malt first to see if that gets you were you want to be. Maybe like 6-8oz in a 5gal batch. Its a kind of a crystal malt (I think) so it should leave some sweetness as well as honey flavor.

Honey malt is basically a brumalt, and not a crystal malt. For extract brewers, It's worth noting the difference, because it really shouldn't be simply steeped (like a crystal malt) in an extract plus steeped grains process.

 

[ghpeel]

Honey malt is basically a brumalt, and not a crystal malt. For extract brewers, It's worth noting the difference, because it really shouldn't be simply steeped (like a crystal malt) in an extract plus steeped grains process.

Ahh thanks for the clarification VikeMan. I always used it in normal all-grain mashes so thats good to know if someone wants to use it as a specialty grain in an extract batch. I'm assuming its probably not got enough enzymes to self convert?

 

[VikeMan]

I'm assuming its probably not got enough enzymes to self convert?

It might have a little DP, but I wouldn't count on it having enough. Gambrinus (the maltster that makes honey malt) makes no claims of any diastatic power, though I have seen a couple vendors claiming 50-ish degrees Lintner. I suspect those (American) vendors misinterpreted a Gambrinus spec sheet listing "Kolbach" (index) at 50, which is a protein thing and not related to DP. (There's a measure called Windisch-Kolbach that Europeans use for DP, but that's different from the Kolbach index.)

 

[passedpawn]

I want to brew a guinness clone which i have done before but i always thought that a slight bit more of sweetness in a guinness would be good. Since there are coffee like flavors in guinness and i love clover honeybin my coffee i thought honey might be a good idea.

How would i add honey and keep the flavor?
When do i add the honey?
And how much honey for a 5 gallon BIAB brew?

Thank you guys for any help you can give me!
Tom

You'd be better off putting a crystal malt in there, say a pound of C40.

It won't be Guinness any longer, which is a shame, I like the beer. I've had a few (!) in country.

 

[Bobby_M]

If you want a Guiness clone to be sweeter, I think you actually want to brew a Sweet Stout rather than a dry Irish stout. Adding honey is actually going to dry the beer out even further and it's challenging to compensate via mashing the grain hotter.

 

[tljljc]

You'd need a lot of honey for the flavor to come though a stout. Being a highly fermentable sugar, that much would just dry out the beer even more. No honey sweetness would be left at all. Honey malt might be a better path.

Guinness is by style a dry stout. Maybe give an export a try? Or an English stout or porter?

How much honey malt for a slight honey sweetness to come through in a 5.5 gallon biab brew? Thank you by the way I would have never thought of honey malt!

 

[tljljc]

Ahh thanks for the clarification VikeMan. I always used it in normal all-grain mashes so thats good to know if someone wants to use it as a specialty grain in an extract batch. I'm assuming its probably not got enough enzymes to self convert?

So in a biab or all grain set up when would you add the honey malt? Sorry i am a little inexperienced at this to get the flavor?

 

[bellhp]

It will go in the mash with the rest of your grains ... I am using Honey malt for the first time today in a Brown Ale . I'm using Breiss American honey malt .

 

[bracconiere]

people backsweeten cider after it's done fermenting by using pot sorbate i believe?

 

[bellhp]

people backsweeten cider after it's done fermenting by using pot sorbate i believe?

If the OP is bottle conditioning that would not be an option though , amiright? but could totally work if force carbing in a keg

 

[bracconiere]

If the OP is bottle conditioning that would not be an option though , amiright?

now that i think about it more, you're right....there is always these though?

https://www.morebeer.com/products/c...m3hHUJ10_csxFwXPpFMwe0oq5XYXpNJBoCMOEQAvD_BwE

 

[DBhomebrew]

OP might be interested in backsweetening their cider if they were making cider.

How much honey malt for a slight honey sweetness to come through in a 5.5 gallon biab brew? Thank you by the way I would have never thought of honey malt!

I wouldn't know, haven't used it myself. I do know adding actual honey would be counter to your hopes of honey flavor and sweetness. I have read honey malt may bring both. You'll have to report back.

 

[bracconiere]

If the OP is bottle conditioning that would not be an option though , amiright? but could totally work if force carbing in a keg

How did it come out? Ive always thought that guinness would be great with a little more sweatness and i like to put clover honey in my coffee. I want to serve it on nitro and have a creamy sweat head.

but he plans on serving it with nitro? so i think he's kegging?

so @tljljc , what says you, potassium sorbate will stop active fermentation for back sweetening. If bottling that would be a problem for you, but if kegging whould be viable.


edit: meant fermentation starting again, is what i've read here is accurate...

 

[tljljc]

Yes its kegging served on nitro. I think i will try a guinness recipe w a little honey malt maybe 1/4 of lb. We will see how it comes out.
Thanks everyone for the help!!

 

[Cheshire Cat]

Try adding Lactose (milk sugar) it will add sweetness and not ferment. Not Guinness rather a Milk Stout.

 

[AlexKay]

Absolutely try the honey malt. It may be all that you need. If you still feel you’re missing sweetness, lactose would then be the way to go.

The one thing you probably don’t want to do is add actual honey. You’re unlikely to get much honey flavor, and you’ll send the ABV much higher than the style should be.

I get honey notes from ~10 minute additions of both Pilgrim and Sonnet. That might provide the cherry (or the honey) on top for you.