Gruit - Wormwood problem

[KIC-8462852]

I'm planning to try brewing a gruit. I had a local pharmacy make me a tea of herbs: Yarrow, Mugwort and Wormwood, equal parts of each.
Unfortunately, turns out I didn't do my homework! I just read that Wormwood is astoundingly bitter and is used in much smaller amounts than the two other herbs.

What I'm thinking now is I might macerate the tea in cold water, adding the result to the wort - I'll make a test maceration to see how that might taste.

Alternatively, I might use the mix at flame-out, during chilling, or in a dry hopping scenario, but I'm concerned that it would still get too bitter.
I don't know, any suggestions are welcome

 

[IslandLizard]

Depending on how strong (concentrated) the herb tea is, put one or a few drops into a glass of Miller Lite, or any other light, neutral flavor beer, and see what it delivers.

Kölsch is actually my preference for taste experiments, as it has a solid malt backbone and no adjuncts.

Why did you have a pharmacy make the tea? Couldn't you do it yourself? Besides, boiling or steeping herbs in the boil kettle will yield much better, fresher results than adding any tea made previously. I've tried hop teas in the past to dope finished beer, and was extremely disappointed.

 

[KIC-8462852]

Depending on how strong (concentrated) the herb tea is, put one or a few drops into a glass of Miller Lite, or any other light, neutral flavor beer, and see what it delivers.

Kölsch is actually my preference for taste experiments, as it has a solid malt backbone and no adjuncts.

Why did you have a pharmacy make the tea? Couldn't you do it yourself? Besides, boiling or steeping herbs in the boil kettle will yield much better, fresher results than adding any tea made previously. I've tried hop teas in the past to dope finished beer, and was extremely disappointed.

Oh... by "tea" I mean "herb mix", not an infusion. I got a bag of herbs is what.

I left a teaspoon in water for 12h and it's quite bitter. Got some nice herb taste too, but really puckering. I'll try a 6 hour maceration next.

Adding the macerate/infusion to beer is a good idea, I may try that.

 

[madscientist451]

Wormwood and making Gruit was discussed in a recent Basic Brewing Podcast. The brewer gave lots of information about alternatives to using hops.

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/9/d/1/9d1...96140254&hwt=307147de74f78a7d1eb5e6c9e68911e7

 

[KIC-8462852]

Wormwood and making Gruit was discussed in a recent Basic Brewing Podcast. The brewer gave lots of information about alternatives to using hops.

http://hwcdn.libsyn.com/p/9/d/1/9d1...96140254&hwt=307147de74f78a7d1eb5e6c9e68911e7

Take-home message: using wormwood is a big mistake.

I tasted the 1-hour macerate of the 3-herb tea in water and it was already rather bitter, but still drinkable. I think I might be able to find a way to use this tea still

 

[LexusChris]

As you have heard & experienced, Wormwood is really bitter. I've made several gruits with wormwood, and each time, it seems like I halve the amount I used last time, and like it better and better.

You can still get some mileage out of your mixed herb bag, but I would treat it like a Wormwood only addition, and get separate pouches of Yarrow flowers, and maybe some Bog Mrytle (Sweet Gale) or Marsh Rosemary.

My last recipe was based upon an English Old Ale, and I used 3g of Wormwood @ 30min, 2oz of Yarrow at flameout, & 22g of Marsh Rosemary at flameout. That was a 5 gallon batch, and it tasted really nice.. especially after many months of aging.

Good luck!
--LexusChris

 

[KIC-8462852]

As you have heard & experienced, Wormwood is really bitter. I've made several gruits with wormwood, and each time, it seems like I halve the amount I used last time, and like it better and better.

You can still get some mileage out of your mixed herb bag, but I would treat it like a Wormwood only addition, and get separate pouches of Yarrow flowers, and maybe some Bog Mrytle (Sweet Gale) or Marsh Rosemary.

My last recipe was based upon an English Old Ale, and I used 3g of Wormwood @ 30min, 2oz of Yarrow at flameout, & 22g of Marsh Rosemary at flameout. That was a 5 gallon batch, and it tasted really nice.. especially after many months of aging.

Good luck!
--LexusChris

Yep, that's what I was thinking, get some extra herbs and use the mix like it was just WW.
Love to get some Bog Mrytle or Lab Tea, but these are very difficult to find where I live.

Wow 3 grams... that 50g pack's going to last me a long time!
So you always use WW as a boil/bittering addition then?

I experimented with dunking a bit of the mix into some beer. It adds a refreshing, lively astringency.

 

[LexusChris]

In earlier batches I used more, and even tried dry-herbing with it. The previous batch before that one, I used:

1oz Yarrow @ 30m
7g Wormwood @ 15m
.4g Sweet Gale @ 15m

Dry-herb for 21 days after primary ferm:
1oz Yarrow
2g Wormwood
.7g Sweet Gale

The dry-herbing was fun, and I agree was enjoyable for me, however, it was a bit too herbaceous/medicinal for many folks to enjoy it. That is why I reduced the herb content in my last one, and that was much better received.

Good luck!
--LexusChris

 

[dmtaylor]

I've made several gruits. Look up some of my posts elsewhere on this forum. I refuse to use any wormwood, never have, never will, for well recognized reasons. There's plenty of better herbs out there to try besides wormwood. A friend of mine used wormwood and I found it tolerable. However... why? Why should he and all his friends and family have to suffer it? I'm a gruit guy, but most people aren't -- you know what I mean?! That's my thoughts on it.

I love sweet gale, a.k.a., bog myrtle, use it in the same amounts as hops (several ounces per batch). Sweet gale has a sort of mentholyptus flavor that I think is nice, but I can see it being a little too much for some people. I use it as my base herb.

Yarrow is alright, kind of tart and bitter, so I use less of that. But it's very traditional so I always use it.

I like rosemary so I've tried that. Never found wild rosemary until recently, have yet to try it.

Mugwort I find can be a little overpowering, so I use lesser amounts of that, maybe someplace in between sweet gale and yarrow for amount.

I've also toyed with standard kitchen herbs & spices like basil, oregano, thyme, stuff like that. Also cardamom. I love cardamom. I'll be playing with that one a lot more in future, although I'll admit, it might be more suitable for Belgian specialty style beers than it is for "gruit" which is supposed to use herbs, not really spices.

I've yet to make a heather beer, as the ones I have tasted haven't really impressed me. I'd be willing to try other kinds of flowers though. Not dandelions. Maybe honeysuckle or apple blossoms or something goofy like that. Not rose petals although some find that enjoyable -- not me.

Play around, see what you might find. There's a hell of a lot more to life than forcing down a wormwood beer.

P.S. Oh yeah, I almost forgot to mention: With any gruit, LESS IS MORE. I always say, do a bit of research and try to figure out exactly how much herbs you think sounds reasonable for your batch..... and then take the final numbers and use just 1/3 as much. Seriously. Recipes from everywhere tend to be pretty bad with overuse of the herbs. It's human nature to want to overdo everything. Herbs are very powerful. Use way less than you think you should, and don't worry, you WILL be able to taste them, I can guarantee it! Use much much less than you think you should, and then you'll enjoy your gruit.

Happy experimenting!

 

[KIC-8462852]

There's plenty of better herbs out there to try besides wormwood.

it might be more suitable for Belgian specialty style beers than it is for "gruit" which is supposed to use herbs, not really spices.

Play around, see what you might find. There's a hell of a lot more to life than forcing down a wormwood beer.

I don't mind absinthe, so I think I'll enjoy wormwood, once I've found a reasonable way to add it.

I would imagine plenty brewers did add spices, so don't sweat it, toss it in there!

I was thinking about sweet woodruff, that's a nice-smelling plant from around here... Also nettles, on another register... but anyway, I'm checking my options and as per your sage advices, I'll experiment.

 

[dmtaylor]

I love good absinthe, but to be honest, it doesn't taste like wormwood! It tastes more like all the other herbs and spices. It's not even bitter, really, not the ones I have tasted anyway.

Love woodruff, that's a fantastic idea. I don't know much about nettles.

 

[honeycon]

I don't mind absinthe, so I think I'll enjoy wormwood, once I've found a reasonable way to add it.

I would imagine plenty brewers did add spices, so don't sweat it, toss it in there!

I was thinking about sweet woodruff, that's a nice-smelling plant from around here... Also nettles, on another register... but anyway, I'm checking my options and as per your sage advices, I'll experiment.

I have a large patch of woodruff and am wanting to brew something with it. Let us know if you try it.
The mead I made with it was very good, almost a vanilla bourbon flavor.

 

[KIC-8462852]

Well, I've got some Musk Yarrow and Southernwood. They're much smoother than wormwood, so they'll be my main ingredients, I'm thinking boil and late additions.
Plus Woodruff for dry herbing, I guess that's the best use for it.
A bit of the wormwood mix for a bit of a twist, but it'll be used very sparingly.
I'll have to wait for temperatures to hopefully drop though, it's way too hot atm.

 

[KIC-8462852]

So I just brewed this yesterday. In the end I used Musk Yarrow, Southernwood, and a bit of Hallertauer Perle hops. I used those herbs for cold teas in the summer but I wasn't sure how they'd come out in a brew, so I figured a bit of nice hops wouldn't hurt.
I forgot about the Wormwood entirely - perhaps I'll do split off a bit after fermentation.
I'm not sure whether I'll dry-herb with Woodruff, I'll just see how it tastes after fermentation. A split off is also a possibility.

Batch 12L (~3gal)
0.2kg steeping Carabelge
1 kg DME blond boil 45 min, 1kg DME blond late addition (partial boil)
Perle 5%: 10g steeping, 15g late add/flameout
Musk Yarrow and Southernwood, 5g each boil 45 minutes, 10g each at 5 and flameout.
Recycled S-04 (2nd cycle) pitched at about 20°C

I feel like I went rather light on those herbs... But I suppose it's safer to under- than over-herb.

I'll try to remember to report back with developments :fro: