Greater than 2% acid malt noticeable

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foles

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Hi, plenty of these threads around but they all seem to indicate the lactic taste threshold doesn't kick into about 5% or so.

I use Weyermann acid malt and can definitely taste it once it goes over about 2% of the grain bill. Its like a slightly sour candy like tang that tends to mask hops and malt. It gets a little more noticable after kegging and carbing. Beer is still drinkable with expected body and mouthfeel, but the flavour is nowhere near where It should be. I've been persisting with acid malt because I like the idea of it, but think I'm going to switch to phosphoric to remove this off-flavour (which has worked well for me in the past). By the way I've spent a lot of time in Germany (especially Franconia) and and this is well in excess of any pleasant level of lactic character supposedly present in German beer. I think a lactic character in German beer is more in the imagination than reality.

I'm wondering whether different water profiles impact the lactate tasting threshold. I have unusual water that has Cl=170 and Na=120. Rest is typical/low with Ca & SO4 = 30 and alkalinity about 100. Perhaps the sodium is reacting with the lactic acid ? Any chemistry experts want to chime in on that?
 
NaCl is nothing other than table salt. In this concentration it will increase sapidity and thus make any flavor more noticeable much like it does with solid food, which is the reason why humans use it when cooking.
 
I'm wondering whether different water profiles impact the lactate tasting threshold.
The amount of alkalinity in your water dictates how much acid you need to achieve a particular mash pH. That's the main effect of the water profile on acid taste.

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I am also sensitive to lactic acid (supertaster) and I switched to RO water so I don't need to use as much. Problem solved.

Cheers
 
NaCl is nothing other than table salt. In this concentration it will increase sapidity and thus make any flavor more noticeable much like it does with solid food, which is the reason why humans use it when cooking.

Interesting. Does salt actually enhance existing flavours in food, or just add saltiness ? I guess it could enhance the lactate flavour.
 
The amount of alkalinity in your water dictates how much acid you need to achieve a particular mash pH. That's the main effect of the water profile on acid taste.

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I am also sensitive to lactic acid (supertaster) and I switched to RO water so I don't need to use as much. Problem solved.

Cheers

Yes, alkalinity is obviously proportional to the amount of acid required, but was interested to see if anything else could result in it being tasted at lower concentrations than what is purported. And I've never noticed this in commercial beers that I know use acid malt for pH reduction. Sounds like the NaCl could do that according to Vale70's post.
 
At low levels it enhances flavors in general. It's one of the first discovered synergistic effects. At higher levels it starts to actually taste salty as well as being bad for your blood pressure...
You could try doing a batch using low-sodium bottled water and see if your threshold for lactate increases significantly.
 
An antagonistic effect? Could be but I have no confirmation. The Gose I drank in Leipzig was pleasantly sour but that might be due to the fact that it just had a small amount of lactic acid added to it instead of actually having been soured with lactos. Or maybe it was the added salt mellowing out the sourness.
 
Leipzig gose has both bacteria and Brett.

I've heard from several people that salt reduces sourness, but I haven't done a side-by-side myself. Not sure either.
 
Not Bayerischer Bahnhof AFAIK. It definitely had no Brett character whatsover.
I've seen studies that say salt should reduce bitterness perception, maybe your sources mixed up sourness and bitterness?
I see that in their website they reference a "Milchsäuregärung" so it probably was the other one that only had lactic acid added. Still definitely no Brett whatsoever.
 
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