Grape flavor in German beer?

[AzOr]

For those of you Trader Joe’s shoppers, is the grape thing something you pick up from Peter’s Brand Dutch Lager?
I would describe it as more pear but could be talked into grape. I get loads of it in this beer. It’s been my go to camping beer for years.

 

[monkeymath]

Since I saw this discussion, I've been looking for that flavour whenever I had a German lager. Approaching the beer in this manner, I think I sometimes picked up the flavour you guys are talking about - or at least I made myself believe I did.

Namely I found it twice in Tegernseer Hell and once in Augustiner Hell, on tap. I also had Augustiner on tap in two other locations where I couldn't find that flavour - and in both these cases, I didn't enjoy the beer quite as much.

It might be a phantom or it might not be the same thing everyone here is referring to, but in the way I perceived it, the flavour kicks in early when you take a sip, as soon as the slight tingle of carbonation subsides. I'd describe the sensation primarily as "fresh" or "bright", but with the whole grape-thing in mind, that seems to describe it quite well. In fact, I had a glass of Weißburgunder last night and I thought this was quite a good match.

 

[dmtaylor]

Which German one does definitely have it?

Oh, you know... now I recall Konig Pilsener had a lovely grape flavor, tasted that one a few months ago and wish I could find it sold around here so I could buy a case or two.

Right now I am drinking a Veltins Grevensteiner, and while it is a good beer, it really does not have this character.

 

[Miraculix]

Oh, you know... now I recall Konig Pilsener had a lovely grape flavor, tasted that one a few months ago and wish I could find it sold around here so I could buy a case or two.

Right now I am drinking a Veltins Grevensteiner, and while it is a good beer, it really does not have this character.

Köpi. Ok, I'll get myself one. Thanks!

 

[wepeeler]

I've done 3 beers with Lutra so far, and got the white wine/grape flavor in all of them using Weyermann malt. Only ever used Weyermann Pils for my light beers and never got white wine/grape in any of them before, so my guess is it may be present in the malt, but yeast have a lot to do with the flavor.

95% Weyermann Pils
5% Carafoam

Lutra worked better with Hallertau Mittelfruh than with Saaz IMO. I fermented at 72, then 75 to finish. Both tasted more American Lager-ish than German Lager-ish.

 

[Miraculix]

Got myself a Veltins and am pretty sure that I know now what you mean. I would describe this flavour as grain flavour. Or, to be more specific, barley flavour. This taste comes out of the pot when I boil pearl barley, I'm pretty sure it's the flavour you guys are referring to. Has nothing at all to do with real grapes (the wine ones), if you ask me. Maybe the description comes from grape nuts, which are, as far as I understand, a type of cereal?

 

[Bassman2003]

DM's post said Veltins did not have the flavor... The flavor is like grape juice or even a bit of grape jelly. Sounds odd paired with beer but that is the flavor. I do not think it is grain related or it would show up more often in all beer styles. Seems pretty straight forward that the flavor comes from the use of sauergut in German brewing. They are pretty much the only folks who use sauergut and are the only ones to produce commercial beer examples with the grape flavor in my experience.

I have never picked up the flavor in the cereal Grape Nuts.

 

[Miraculix]

DM's post said Veltins did not have the flavor... The flavor is like grape juice or even a bit of grape jelly. Sounds odd paired with beer but that is the flavor. I do not think it is grain related or it would show up more often in all beer styles. Seems pretty straight forward that the flavor comes from the use of sauergut in German brewing. They are pretty much the only folks who use sauergut and are the only ones to produce commercial beer examples with the grape flavor in my experience.

I have never picked up the flavor in the cereal Grape Nuts.

He said veltins grevensteiner, that's a different beer! I think somebody mentioned the normal veltins here as a good example of the flavour.

 

[Bassman2003]

Sorry! I have tasted it in Warsteiner hell in the states here. Not sure if it is like that in the German-area product. Tough to relay flavors over the internet.

 

[monkeymath]

Wait, there's flavour in Warsteiner?! :O

 

[camonick]

DM's post said Veltins did not have the flavor... The flavor is like grape juice or even a bit of grape jelly. Sounds odd paired with beer but that is the flavor. I do not think it is grain related or it would show up more often in all beer styles. Seems pretty straight forward that the flavor comes from the use of sauergut in German brewing. They are pretty much the only folks who use sauergut and are the only ones to produce commercial beer examples with the grape flavor in my experience.

I have never picked up the flavor in the cereal Grape Nuts.

My recent experiments with homemade sauergut are definitely beginning to prove this to be the case. If we’re all talking about the same “flavor”, I almost always taste it in imported beer from Germany, but rarely in similar American lagers. If it was grain related, I’d think it would be more common in American beers. I have a Pilsner fermenting right now that should help me make a final decision. I’ve used it in a Hefeweizen and a Vienna lager so far and I like the results.

 

[Red over White]

With Sauergut it's there automatic. I have got it with honey in my house helles as it ages (6 weeks+) without Sauergut, never young [*no professional reference available]. As if it (the Sauergut flavor) developed as small levels of complex sugars in the honey eventually broke down while lagering. <-- think Rocky Raccoons Crystal Honey Lager for you old timers.

I'm drinking a helles brewed with Sauergut as I type and it's divine. So German, so good, so made 4 feet from where I'm sitting right now. I'm 150% committed to brewing clean, wonderful fresh lagers with slight bends in the traditional temperature and pressure format, but very much in the macro style of brewing. Keep pushing things until you find your perfect repeatable flavor. Cheers

 

[SFC Rudy]

Any German beer you buy in the states will not taste like the beer you buy in Germany. It has been pasteurized and you do not know how it was treated during transport.

I was stationed in Germany for 10 years and drank more than my fair share of German beer. I have tried numerous German beers from the liquor stores, and it is not the same.

 

[CornKing]

I got this on a pils I made in 2019! But it took a couple months in the keg to show up. It was really weird.
My notes say:
"hop flavor changed to weird white wine like ~3-1/2 months after brew" and "use less late hops"

Avangard pils, Breiss Carapils, melanoidin in the mash, Edelweiss for bittering and Spalter Select for flavor additions, WLP803.

I had this happen with a pils I brewed a couple years ago. Cargill german pils malt, WLP 802. It was an absolute noble hop bomb, I whirlpooled a 4 oz mix of spalt, saaz, mittlefreuh and tettnang, and then threw the exact same in as DH. It was absolutely incredible... until like 3-4 months later when I was on the last dreggs of the keg. I've repeated the same recipe a couple times and not gotten the same effect, although I usually kill the keg before that 3-4 month time.

Interestingly, I encountered the same flavor not long ago in a bottle of KC Bier Co's Helles. Per their clone recipe there's not nearly the same hop quantity, and they use a different yeast. Hard to imagine whatever metabolite is causing this flavor doesn't originate from either yeast or hops, but the fact that it takes some months to appear suggests its a slow chemical change (oxidation of a hop derived compound maybe?)