Grain storage

[brew703]

Here's my process:
I'll either buy ingredients for a specific batch online or from my local HBS. I usually buy two batches at a time, packaged in a bag for each recipe.
The first batch is usually brewed within a week of purchasing the grains. The second batch a couple weeks later.

Do most just leave the packaged grains at room temp, in a fridge or in a freezer until ready to use?

I'm asking because in July I purchased grain for two batches. Upon getting home, the grains were placed in my office, with a daytime time of 75 degrees. Brewed batch #1 the following weekend, no issues.

The second batch was brewed about a month later due to some unforeseen issues. When I opened the grain bag and dumped in my mill to grind, I notice a lot of bugs. I've seen a few here and there before but this time it was a lot so I just dumped the grain.
In 5 years of brewing this has only happened two times, both times the grain was purchased from a HBS.

Owner told me to place the bags in the freezer to prevent the eggs from hatching. I really don't have the space in my freezer to store grains. Any alternatives?

 

[Dland]

I have never had any bugs in my grain. I'd wonder about the storage procedures of the store you buy from. There is no local supply near, so I order on line, usually 10# bags, sometimes 5# for specialty grains.

The shipping policy of my supplier makes it cheaper for me to order the smaller bags than 50# bags which have shipping surcharge, and always have enough for 5-10 batches on hand. I store them in a wire rack cart in my unheated but humidity controlled cellar space, marked with arrival date on bag so stock gets rotated.

 

[Pappers_]

Room temperature for me, including summer in Chicago. I've also never had bugs in my malt.

 

[FunkedOut]

When the grains get home, put them in the freezer for a few days. That should kill any eggs.
You can then store at room temp.

 

[mongoose33]

I don't think freezing necessarily kills eggs. If it did, winters would eliminate the bugs entirely in the north, and that's likely where the grain originates.

To prevent this in the future, if you have access to CO2, you might flush the grain with that to get as much O2 out of the grain as is reasonable. That would create an inhospitable environment for the bugs.

But that's only if you think you'll let them sit for a while. As you noted, if you use it right away, no need. The only other alternative besides storing in a freezer (which you don't have room to do, so it's moot) is storing in a refrigerator which would not be hospitable to bugs.

 

[IslandLizard]

Owner told me to place the bags in the freezer to prevent the eggs from hatching.

That's a cop out. My answer to him would be: "Do you store all the grain here in a freezer?"

If they're weevils (small black, ant size bugs with a pointy snout that move slowly) freezing will kill them and the larvae, but probably not the eggs, but will indeed stop them from hatching until they warm up again.

Grain moths (pantry moths) are probably even more of a pest, as they fly to mate and lay their eggs everywhere in or near starchy food sources. Similar treatment will keep them down, but they're even more difficult to totally eradicate.

If the amount of bug infestation is low, just mill the grain and brew with it, just as you did before. If it's sizeable, hmm, just the thought is grose enough, dump em.

I had a few paper bags containing a few pounds of bulk-stored grain (WholeFoods) that developed weevils after a while. The dog noticed the sound. The bag was rustling and everything in there was moving. No saving that. Luckily they didn't spread to the other (ziplock bagged) grain or anywhere else but they were starting to look for new territory...

 

[specialkayme]

I don't think freezing necessarily kills eggs. If it did, winters would eliminate the bugs entirely in the north, and that's likely where the grain originates.

I was under the impression that freezing (below 10 deg F for 24 hours, or below 20 deg F for 48 hours) kills bugs, larvae, pupae, and eggs. I use this regularly in my beekeeping operation to destroy wax moth and small hive beetle eggs. It's a practice that is well advised by the USDA and NCDACS.

I don't know if grains contain bugs that are more temp resistant than I normally encounter though.

My understanding was also that insects are able to survive freezing temps by burrowing into the soil, into trees, or other substrates to avoid the extended below zero temps that negatively impact them. Also yearly migration impacts re-investing areas.

While I'm an avid beekeeper, I don't claim to be a general entomologist.

 

[IslandLizard]

I was under the impression that freezing (below 10 deg F for 24 hours, or below 20 deg F for 48 hours) kills bugs, larvae, pupae, and eggs.

That's at least some reassuring news. I haven't found a trustworthy source for that claim anywhere, I hope you're right.

Now deep inside a full grain silo the temps may never reach that low, to kill the eggs, even in the midst of a long Minnesota winter.

 

[specharka]

Am I the only one here who feels it’s reprehensible for the LHBS owner to not take full responsibility? It’s incumbent upon the LHBS (not you) to store grains properly so that they don’t get infested by pests, not provide instructions on how to kill the weevils. That would be like the grocery store saying “no worries about the roaches in your bread, they’ll die if you freeze them”.

I’ve experienced weevils ONCE and the retailer apologized profusely, refunded me the purchase value, and promised he would rectify the issue with his vendor. Anything less is a total cop out.

 

[specialkayme]

That's at least some reassuring news. I haven't found a trustworthy source for that claim anywhere, I hope you're right.

Obviously not all eggs from all insect species will react to cold the same, but I can tell you from first hand experience that freezing for 48 hours in a chest freezer kills small hive beetle, wax moth, and honey bee eggs.

I know there are a number of other techniques used to manage the situation, including Co2 (as mentioned earlier), and humidity control (below a certain humidity level, eggs can't hatch, although each species is a little different), and O3 (ozone), but my understanding was that you need to maintain these techniques in order to prevent hatching. If I remove the Co2, or re-raise the humidity level, the eggs will then hatch again.

Am I the only one here who feels it’s reprehensible for the LHBS owner to not take full responsibility? It’s incumbent upon the LHBS (not you) to store grains properly so that they don’t get infested by pests, not provide instructions on how to kill the weevils.

I'm not sure where the breakdown, or the infestation, occurred. If LHBS is receiving clean grain, it's getting infested in the shop and being sold to the customer, I agree it's reprehensible. If LHBS is not receiving clean grain, or the grain is being infested after it left the store (not the case here with sealed bags), I'm not sure LHBS can do much about the issue (although I would hope they would buy from another supplier).

But as I'm sure you've experienced, quality at LHBS varies considerably from one to another. There's a reason why I don't regularly shop at the 3 in my town, and drive past 3 others to get to one over an hour away (the ones in my town are owned by really nice people, but not with the greatest and freshest selection of ingredients at higher than average prices).

 

[thehaze]

I store crushed grains at room temperature, even more than a month without any issues. They are of course sealed and stored in brown, cardboard boxes, but I never encountered this specific issue.

I would say that it could easily be a due to incorrect storage/handling from the LHBSor maybe a third party, but it's a bummer.

 

[brew703]

The bugs appear to be weevils, not moths.
The HBS I buy from store their grain in their warehouse. I also order online and never had an issue, only from the HBS. I guess I need to stop buying from them and just get items online.

 

[brew703]

That's a cop out. My answer to him would be: "Do you store all the grain here in a freezer?"

If they're weevils (small black, ant size bugs with a pointy snout that move slowly) freezing will kill them and the larvae, but probably not the eggs, but will indeed stop them from hatching until they warm up again.

Grain moths (pantry moths) are probably even more of a pest, as they fly to mate and lay their eggs everywhere in or near starchy food sources. Similar treatment will keep them down, but they're even more difficult to totally eradicate.

If the amount of bug infestation is low, just mill the grain and brew with it, just as you did before. If it's sizeable, hmm, just the thought is grose enough, dump em.

I had a few paper bags containing a few pounds of bulk-stored grain (WholeFoods) that developed weevils after a while. The dog noticed the sound. The bag was rustling and everything in there was moving. No saving that. Luckily they didn't spread to the other (ziplock bagged) grain or anywhere else but they were starting to look for new territory...

Yeah I went in a couple weeks ago to talk to him about it and he didn't seem concerned. Says it happens. it kinda frustrated me as I thought he would at least apologize but he didn't seem concerned. The guy is really nice and he is always willing to talk brewing and ans questions but I think I need to just order online.
The grains I dumped were pretty infested with the bugs, enough for me to feel the need to dump.

 

[specharka]

Yeah I went in a couple weeks ago to talk to him about it and he didn't seem concerned. Says it happens. it kinda frustrated me as I thought he would at least apologize but he didn't seem concerned. The guy is really nice and he is always willing to talk brewing and ans questions but I think I need to just order online.
The grains I dumped were pretty infested with the bugs, enough for me to feel the need to dump.

Dude. Throw that guy a bad review on Yelp or Google and he might take these complaints more seriously. He totally deserves it.

Yeah, I know I’m the ******* but that’s garbage quality control AND garbage customer service. That’s inexcusable.

 

[IslandLizard]

Dude. Throw that guy a bad review on Yelp or Google and he might take these complaints more seriously. He totally deserves it.

Yeah, I know I’m the icehole but that’s garbage quality control AND garbage customer service. That’s inexcusable.

The main problem is, there are not that many options/sources for a HBS to get grain and supplies from. Many use BSG for their grain and lots of their sundries.

One of the semi-local breweries had a weevil problem a few years ago. They were able to eradicate them though.
I think the biggest problem is the turnover on some grain is too long, and any eggs in those, hatch... infesting the whole shop in a few weeks or months.

 

[boxboybrewing]

I store my grains inside ziploc or sealed plastic bags and then inside a sealed 5 gallon bucket in my garage. Haven't had a problem so far. But then again, I brew small batches and the grain doesn't stay around long!

 

[OG-wan Kenobi]

The bugs appear to be weevils, not moths.
The HBS I buy from store their grain in their warehouse. I also order online and never had an issue, only from the HBS. I guess I need to stop buying from them and just get items online.

150% what I would do - for the record no bugs over here ever

 

[kevin58]

Even if you kill the eggs and get rid of the bug there are the carcasses of dead bugs and their excrement left behind.

 

[specialkayme]

Even if you kill the eggs and get rid of the bug there are the carcasses of dead bugs and their excrement left behind.

I'm not sure that makes it unusable, within reason of course.

https://www.foxnews.com/food-drink/...-and-more-gross-things-the-fda-allows-in-food

It would be “economically impractical to grow, harvest or process raw products that are totally free of nonhazardous, naturally occurring, unavoidable defects" such as insect eggs, maggots, live insects, rodent hair, droppings, dirt, ect.