Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[JonathanG]

I just bottled my first batch of this a couple of days ago. It was at 1.008 and I thought it was done. Forgot about it for a week, and it dropped to 1.004. So, I waited a couple more days (3-days total), and the gravity was still at 1.004, so I went ahead and bottled it. Ended up with 4.4-gallons into bottles.

I'm looking forward to drinking this as Summer transitions into Fall.

I plan to try Graham's English Cider for my next cider and have 6-gallons of juice in the basement, ready to go.

 

[agentEhrman]

I admit,I did have the airlock blow off and it fermented quite high (74 temp range), while I was gone for a weekend, but figured with the co2 blanket and the fruity esters would be okay, we'll see how it ages. *fingers crossed* I want a good cider!

I had the same issue with the airlock, and mine did turn out fine. I was thinking the same thing about the fruity esters, I'm sure your batch will taste good!

 

[MacrosNZ]

Laid down my second batch of this arvo. Changed DME to a 1.5kg can of light LME, and used around 12 grams of Nelson Sauvin @ 12% AA (which may have been a little too much =\ ).

 

[kingboomer]

Well, I just tried my first one this last saturday, and I'm very impressed! Still needs another week or two to get the green taste mellowed out, but very tasty brew. My hat's off to you Brandon O!



-Kingboomer

 

[alchemedes]

Ok, I just made my second batch I am extremely upset with the results. The first batch was amazing, but his time around it was terrible. For this second batch I went with a 3 gallon recipe as I only had the 3gal carboy empty. I was very careful about the calculations of course. It has been extremely warm here in Oregon though and I was only able to keep the ferment at an unstable 68-72 degrees Fahrenheit by rotating out iced water bottles in a trough of water beneath the fermenter - lots of people do this - but this is tedious and you've got to stay on top of the rotation.

Anyway, the krausen disappeared only after the first four days of fermentation and the airlock bubbled only ever so slightly (once every 3-5) minutes until the tenth day when there finally seemed to be absolutely no more activity at all. So, on the tenth day I decided to check the gravity and have a sample taste. The final gravity was at 1.006 (from a starting gravity of 1.062) and the taste was exactly like apple vinegar beer - you probably would have laughed if you saw my face squinch up in disgust. However, it did pack quite a punch as I felt a good buzz just from drinking a test vile full. Haha!

I am so disappointed though that I feel like I should just dump it out to the Beer Gods, but I would rather save it somehow. Anyone think I could simply back sweeten it with two cans condensed AJ, then keg it? Would that help mask the vinegar-esque flavor?

Also, any one have any ideas on how I got this awful taste? I don't want to have a repeat when I make it again. Was it fermented to long for a 3 gallon batch, or was it simply the fluctuation of heat?

 

[bk0]

If it really is like vinegar, that sounds like infection with acetobacter bacteria. Nothing you can do at this point except dump it and be more careful with sanitation next time.

 

[MZRIS]

wait you could make vinegar!

 

[alchemedes]

Honestly, I have always been very good about sanitization - sometimes borderline OCD, and I don't fear the sani-foam monster. So, I wonder at what point during the process I did something to cause this vinegar taste to happen. Could it have been on the grains, the hops, the malts? Could it have been in the Motts brand AJ already? Could it have been airborne? I would like to make another attempt, but I would like to avoid a repeat of 3 gallons of vinegar. Anyone?

 

[jsmith32]

Great thread!

For those of you who've made a more 'session-style' of this recipe (say, OG of 1.050-1.060), how does it turn out?

I'm thinking about doing a 3 gallon batch of this: 2/3 juice, and 1/3 of a real basic blonde ale recipe.

Also, has anyone thought about naming a variation of this Steffi GRAFF?

Jason

 

[alchemedes]

Honestly, I have always been very good about sanitization - sometimes borderline OCD, and I don't fear the sani-foam monster. So, I wonder at what point during the process I did something to cause this vinegar taste to happen. Could it have been on the grains, the hops, the malts? Could it have been in the Motts brand AJ already? Could it have been airborne? I would like to make another attempt, but I would like to avoid a repeat of 3 gallons of vinegar. Anyone?

Well, we can all just ignore my last few posts because this stuff turned out great 3 days later. No vinegar taste at all. I admit I was a bit tipsy when I took the sample - too much Hefe.

What a great recipe! I did however backsweeten with one can of condensed AJ to bring up the final gravity as it was a tad too tart, more tart then the description. It's kegged and ready to drink! :rockin:

 

[ElCapitan]

Well I'm getting ready to bottle this morning and my fg is 1.010. I followed the recipe except I used the Wyeast Cider Smackpack for yeast. It has been in the fermenter for about a month and tastes great. My cider fanatic girlfriend loves it.

Well, we can all just ignore my last few posts because this stuff turned out great 3 days later. No vinegar taste at all. I admit I was a bit tipsy when I took the sample - too much Hefe.

I can completely relate. When I tasted mine at 2 weeks I nearly spit it all over the wall, but after a month it tastes great! SOOO happy I didn't dump it!

 

[alchemedes]

ElCapitan, I'm glad someone else had a similar experience. Strange that mine only took 3 days to get a million times better though... did you leave it in the prime for a month or did you secondary?

 

[chemdoc]

Well I'm getting ready to bottle this morning and my fg is 1.010. I followed the recipe except I used the Wyeast Cider Smackpack for yeast. It has been in the fermenter for about a month and tastes great. My cider fanatic girlfriend loves it.

I can completely relate. When I tasted mine at 2 weeks I nearly spit it all over the wall, but after a month it tastes great! SOOO happy I didn't dump it!

I had the same experience. After three weeks in bottle, I was a little disappointed. I gave most of the bottles to a buddy and forgot about it for a month. Tasted some this weekend and it is much better. Wish i had hung onto more bottles, but my buddy's girlfriend has drank much of what I gave him, so at least I helped out a friend.

 

[Carbonellsa]

HELP!

Last Sunday, Aug 19, I made a 3 gallon batch of this.
However I didn't follow the instructions exactly.
For example; I used 1lb of amber DME, and 0.5lb of light DME. (which is a lot of DME for 3 gallons I believe) Also I used a champagne yeast instead of Nottingham.

It was going well, for the first 4 days it was bubbling beautifully. Then it stopped. On sunday, Aug 26, I added more yeast.
It's still not doing anything and smells bad.

Am I just being paranoid? Or is there something wrong here.
(Also I should probably tell everyone that this is my first real brew, everything else I've done is just yeast, sugar and juice.)

Thanks
-Sam

 

[Smashing]

Why did you add more yeast? Did you take any gravity readings?

 

[Carbonellsa]

Why did you add more yeast? Did you take any gravity readings?

I added more yeast because I thought mine might have died, and that's why it wasn't bubbling any more. Also I didn't think adding more yeast would hurt, if anything it would just sit in the bottom.

And no, I never took any gravity readings, I don't usually find any need for them— but now I wish I had.

 

[Carbonellsa]

Ferment 2 weeks at 64-68 degrees

How important is this temperature? What if it's 74 degrees.....? >.<

 

[PortlandPatrick]

How important is this temperature? What if it's 74 degrees.....? >.<

Temperature is pretty important, and four days at 74° is enough for some batches to finish. 74° isn't usually an ideal environment for fermentation, partially because the process will be so aggressive (and therefore quick).

You can calculate your OG and take a FG reading to see how things are coming along. Hopville.com has a nice recipe builder you can use to find the OG.

 

[Smashing]

I added more yeast because I thought mine might have died, and that's why it wasn't bubbling any more. Also I didn't think adding more yeast would hurt, if anything it would just sit in the bottom.

And no, I never took any gravity readings, I don't usually find any need for them&#151; but now I wish I had.

You can always take one now and see where you stand.

 

[hopbrad]

i am going to brew this tomorrow afternoon and use t-58 yeast. i figure the fruitiness and spice may work ok. also may throw in a dash of cinnamon. will update, unless anyone thinks this is a bad idea.

 

[alchemedes]

I added more yeast because I thought mine might have died, and that's why it wasn't bubbling any more. Also I didn't think adding more yeast would hurt, if anything it would just sit in the bottom.

And no, I never took any gravity readings, I don't usually find any need for them— but now I wish I had.

I had the same experience (especially because of summer heat), but mine still came out great in the end - keep reading. I tasted mine after about 10 days even though there seemed to be little if no action for 5 days, and it tasted like vinegar at first. HOWEVER, I just let it go for the time stated in the original recipe, and you know what? It tastes pretty darn good after all that worrying about it. Now it's kegged. A bit tart, but still a good drink.

 

[dward]

Just bottled last night and it tasted really good. FG was 1.010 and SG was 1.062. I just wanted to see what FG readings people are getting. I know I should of checked a few times to make sure it stabilized, but i really needed my carboy. Hopefully I won't get any bottle bombs.

 

[Carbonellsa]

Temperature is pretty important, and four days at 74° is enough for some batches to finish. 74° isn't usually an ideal environment for fermentation, partially because the process will be so aggressive (and therefore quick).

You can calculate your OG and take a FG reading to see how things are coming along. Hopville.com has a nice recipe builder you can use to find the OG.

Hahahaha

Take a look at this. Maybe that's why my yeast is dead.

 

[hopbrad]

i did a 2.5 gallon of this yesterday and was thinking of slicing up and caramelizing an apple with sugar and adding it into the primary to get a little more apple/caramel flavor. has anyone ever tried this? i also have some lactose sitting around, i could use half sugar, half lactose when i caramelize.

 

[PortlandPatrick]

Take a look at this. Maybe that's why my yeast is dead.

I'm pretty sure that the calculator doesn't want the value of apple juice in pounds, even though that's how it appears. Apple juice is about 50 points per pound per gallon, so if you're adding 4 gallons, you're adding 200 points, not 950.

The idea of 15%abv Graff is equally interesting and nauseating.

 

[hebbs]

kegged batch #1, smells a bit hooch-y! Will have to let this one cool off a bit before serving, and maybe add a little blackcurrant syrup in the glass for a graff+black?

 

[PattyM]

I'm getting ready to brew this today as was wondering if anyone has back sweetened, bottled and then BOTTLE PASTERIZED this? I tend to like things around 1.012-1.020 and it looks like this will likely finish lower than that. I would probably use frozen apple juice concentrate to back sweeten Would bottle pasterizatiion ruin the taste? I need to stabile it in the bottle because I don't have the frig space and I don't want to use Sorbate or sulfite.

 

[onipar]

Quick question:

Do you think the graff would be good with Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen? Has anyone fermented it with that strain? I have an extra pack of it and was trying to figure out what to do with it.

 

[CA-LT1]

I've done straight cider with the White Labs version of that (WLP300), and it turned out great, better then the other yeasts I've used

 

[onipar]

I've done straight cider with the White Labs version of that (WLP300), and it turned out great, better then the other yeasts I've used

Right on. I may have to try this.

 

[29thfloor]

Quick question:

Do you think the graff would be good with Wyeast 3068 Weihenstephan Weizen? Has anyone fermented it with that strain? I have an extra pack of it and was trying to figure out what to do with it.

I did a batch of graff using 1 gallon of hefeweizen as the beer base and fermented with 3068. I thought it turned out pretty well. I would imagine using that yeast with the original recipe would be good to but I haven't tried that.

 

[onipar]

I did a batch of graff using 1 gallon of hefeweizen as the beer base and fermented with 3068. I thought it turned out pretty well. I would imagine using that yeast with the original recipe would be good to but I haven't tried that.

Great, thanks for the input. Yeah, I was thinking the banana and clove would go pretty well with the apple/tart, but I don't know. I guess there's only one way to find out!

 

[TyTanium]

Just finished a batch with 3068. I don't love it. Just tastes like apple-y hefeweizen. The 3068 character bullies out everything else. If I brew this again, I'll won't use that yeast.

 

[onipar]

Just finished a batch with 3068. I don't love it. Just tastes like apple-y hefeweizen. The 3068 character bullies out everything else. If I brew this again, I'll won't use that yeast.

Well crap, now I have to rethink this I guess. Some seem to like it, some not. Bah! :=p Suppose I should just make a hefe with it and do the graff with S-05

 

[TyTanium]

Well crap, now I have to rethink this I guess. Some seem to like it, some not. Bah! :=p Suppose I should just make a hefe with it and do the graff with S-05

It's not bad by any means, it just screams hefe yeast. I love hefes, but I was thinking it'd be muted with only 2 lbs of malt. But it tastes like a hefe blended with cider. Still good, just not what I was hoping for.

 

[onipar]

It's not bad by any means, it just screams hefe yeast. I love hefes, but I was thinking it'd be muted with only 2 lbs of malt. But it tastes like a hefe blended with cider. Still good, just not what I was hoping for.

Hmmm...interesting. Yeah, I'm not sure. Actually, i was thinking of adding a tiny bit of chocolate malt and maybe up the caramel a little bit to make a darker graff. Not a "black graff" but maybe dark brown. I wonder if that would hold up to the 3068 a little better?

Also, I was thinking maybe if I slightly overpitched the yeast, it'd ferment a little cleaner and not be as strong... I dunno...just spitballing. Thanks for the tips!

 

[MacrosNZ]

I've tried making this with both Nottingham and s-05, DME and LME, and the best tasting I've found is with Nottingham (Chicks like it too). S-05 seemed to ferment more and gave a dryer, higher ABV cider (Higher attenuation rate perhaps?). Need more data points in my analysis though haha.

 

[slumslum]

I am going to make a variation of this on Saturday.

I am going to follow the original recipe for the most part, but instead of Apple Juice I am going to use some fresh squeezed Apple Cider.

I have 2 questions:

1. Using Nottingham Yeast. Is 1 packet of Nottingham enough or should I use 2?

2. Should this be filtered or unfiltered? I will be force carbonating it, so the yeast part of it is not important. Has anyone filtered theirs? What was your result?

Thanks.

 

[PattyM]

I too would like a slighly sweeter finished Graff. I made the original recipe using 120L and notty, hoping it would finish a bit sweeter. It tasted ok, but not what I was hoping for. The guys think it tastes amazing! So maybe it's a gender thing. The original is more of a HE-Graf and what I would like is more of a SHE-Graf. I tend to like things around 1.020-1.028. So, how to I accomplish this best without losing the balance? Watch the ferment and bottle it at 1.030, let it carb a bit (losing a few points as it goes) and then bottle pasturize...or just let it finish and back sweeten with ??? honey, frozen apple juice concentrate, (again to approx 1.030, so it can lose a few points to carbintion)...then again, bottle pasturize. I'm new at this and usually do mead, but started doing cider becasue it's drinkable sooner than most mead. I've tried Apfelwein, but it's way too dry! Also can't stand the taste left by the Montrechet yeast (it has an after taste just like the nasty smell it has a few days into the ferment).

 

[S3NTYN3L]

I apologize if this has been asked and answered already but I'm not willing to sift through 170+ pages, lol.

I'm about to pitch a packet of Nottingham into my 5gal batch of this recipe.

Should I rig up a 1" hose and let it blow off into a 1gal handle or am I good to go with just the 3pc airlock and a 6gal carboy?