Good questions - in to watch responses!
(Just found this thread - hoping to brew a batch with fresh-pressed cider this fall.
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Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)
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(Just found this thread - hoping to brew a batch with fresh-pressed cider this fall.
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4. I've used WYeast FF to make a straight up apple cider with great results - it was everybody's favorite, actually.
nyer
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I am going to brew this soon And was wondering if anybody has ever used any cinnamon sticks and/or oaked this?
All you'll need is a pot to hold ~ 1 gallon, and your standard fermentation vessel. Super easy
Or you can just use a carboy and add the juice, liquid malt extract (LME), and yeast to directly to the carboy. No heating necessary, just an occasional swirl to help dissolve the malt extract. I typically add 2-3 lbs LME (wheat or pilsener) to 5 gallons of cider. The LME will dissolve as the fermentation progresses.
Lefou
Danged rascally furt
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Answers for bolus14...
Your graff will be tart because of the higher acidity levels contributed from apples... mainly from malic acid. The best bet for sweetening this may be with stevia or other artificial additives as table sugar, corn sugar, etc. is still liable to ferment in the presence of active yeast.
Not all yeasts are created equally. Some are more attenuative and tolerant of high alcohol environments, so your best bet - for Belgian yeast, anyway - would be to eliminate saison yeasts, mash less diastatically active malts toward the high end of the temp range, or change the wort-to-Apple juice ratio for a tart beer instead of a malty cider. A less attenuative ale yeast is more likely to leave residual dextrins for body and perceived sweetness, so there is a balance to be sought depending on whether you want beer or cider to prevail.
Your graff will be tart because of the higher acidity levels contributed from apples... mainly from malic acid. The best bet for sweetening this may be with stevia or other artificial additives as table sugar, corn sugar, etc. is still liable to ferment in the presence of active yeast.
Not all yeasts are created equally. Some are more attenuative and tolerant of high alcohol environments, so your best bet - for Belgian yeast, anyway - would be to eliminate saison yeasts, mash less diastatically active malts toward the high end of the temp range, or change the wort-to-Apple juice ratio for a tart beer instead of a malty cider. A less attenuative ale yeast is more likely to leave residual dextrins for body and perceived sweetness, so there is a balance to be sought depending on whether you want beer or cider to prevail.
Lefou
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One of my first cider experiments used Motts apple juice and S0-4 dry yeast. The cider fermented totally dry. I used PET bottles and aged the cider for over a year. The tartness modified somewhat over time and the cider morphed into a thin-bodied drink reminiscent of weak Chardonnay.
Adding carapils, medium crystal or specialty malts up to 60L would influence body perception and color. Shy away from the dark crystal or black patent grains because in small amounts they will enhance acidity and bitterness. LME or DME would be much less labor intensive to use, but the graff may need to age somewhat to reduce acetaldehyde perception.
Adding carapils, medium crystal or specialty malts up to 60L would influence body perception and color. Shy away from the dark crystal or black patent grains because in small amounts they will enhance acidity and bitterness. LME or DME would be much less labor intensive to use, but the graff may need to age somewhat to reduce acetaldehyde perception.
Lefou
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Not a dumb question by any means. If you use LME or DME diluted with water/cider in the proper amount that fits your fermentor, you won't require a mash tun.
Mashing is needed only when you use grain to create wort. You can easily steep crushed carapils or medium crystal malt in 150F-170F water for 30 minutes with less effort by simply adding it to your cider or apple juice extract, then mix to fill your fermentor to the correct volume.
Thanks for your reply! I've been doing a lot of research and just enjoy the idea of all grain brewing. I've looked at some recipes and came up with an all grain conversions. I'm probably way off here, but how does this sound:
3.5 lbs 2 row pale, like Pilsen pale
0.65lbs crystal 60l
1oz carapils
1.5 gallon water
.6oz mount hood 60 mins
US-05
4 gallons aj
I'd use a brew bag if I did go this route.
I like LME additions because malt extract is about 70% fermentable, meaning that there will be unfermentable dextrins and other compounds left to add mouthfeel and sweetness. Any reasonable addition of LME or DME, even pilsener or wheat extracts will add some color and body because fermented apple juice is normally very lacking in both of those elements.
5 gallons apple juice plus 3 lbs wheat LME and S-04 yeast finished at 1.010 for me which is a really nice ending point that doesn't require back-sweetening, nor is there any worry of bottle bombs.
I think the original intent of the OP was to produce a good cider in a short amount of time. I believe I did that to near perfection with my last batch. I followed the OP’s recipe with one exception- I made a half gallon of beer wort and mixed with 4.5 gallons of fresh cider. This can easily be done on the stove with a pot and brewing bag. No need for advanced equipment. Anyone can do a half gallon of wort.
I fermented for 3 weeks in the primary. I then racked to a secondary and threw it in my kegerator to cold crash for 2 weeks. I did throw some oak chips in the secondary, although I’m not sure they did anything. After the 2 week cold crash, I transferred to keg, added 1.5 cans of frozen apple juice for back sweetening, and put it on air.
In one week it tasted great. Two weeks later it tasted absolutely amazing. I would put it up against any commercial cider. Guys and gals loved it. It was clear, beautiful, perfect fizz, a little head, and didn’t last long.
Give it a try if you want a great home brewed cider.
I fermented for 3 weeks in the primary. I then racked to a secondary and threw it in my kegerator to cold crash for 2 weeks. I did throw some oak chips in the secondary, although I’m not sure they did anything. After the 2 week cold crash, I transferred to keg, added 1.5 cans of frozen apple juice for back sweetening, and put it on air.
In one week it tasted great. Two weeks later it tasted absolutely amazing. I would put it up against any commercial cider. Guys and gals loved it. It was clear, beautiful, perfect fizz, a little head, and didn’t last long.
Give it a try if you want a great home brewed cider.
Curious if you took gravity readings pre/post AJC?
I'm thinking along the same lines, but unsure how much AJC is enough/too much. What sweetness level would you compare the 1.5 cans too when it comes to commercial examples?
I'm planning on splitting a large batch yielding a keg and some Applejack. I hope to get the keg into sparkling apple wine territory. Similar to Angry Orchard-The Muse(champagne bottle stuff, not grocery store stuff).
I'm thinking minimal base malt. Just a light blend of Crystal/caramel malts along with some dextrin malt and a touch of wheat. Really just looking for some body and mouthfeel along with a deeper/multi layered sweetness from the malt. I've done the "traditional" Graff, and it was okay. But it kinda just reminded me of a better reds apple ale. Now, years later and better chops, I want to give it another go.
Thanks for the info and any response
No readings taken, sorry. As an accomplished drinker, it felt like it was a 5-7% beverage. By following the OP's wort recipe (which I think is great) and cutting it in half, I avoided the apple beer taste that I thought the original recipe had. That small amount of wort (10% of total volume) helped avoid the apple wine taste.
As for backsweetening, the 1.5 cans seemed perfect to me. At first it was a tad sweet. But about 2 weeks after being added (and under air and cold), it mellowed perfectly. The best comparison in terms of sweetness- Angry Orchard Easy Apple, which is less sweet than their normal offerings. If you're still concerned with the sweetness level, you can go with one can your first time and see how that goes. I think it would still add some sweetness.
Hope that helps. Good luck and enjoy-
As for backsweetening, the 1.5 cans seemed perfect to me. At first it was a tad sweet. But about 2 weeks after being added (and under air and cold), it mellowed perfectly. The best comparison in terms of sweetness- Angry Orchard Easy Apple, which is less sweet than their normal offerings. If you're still concerned with the sweetness level, you can go with one can your first time and see how that goes. I think it would still add some sweetness.
Hope that helps. Good luck and enjoy-
BigPicture
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Thank you OP. This is great! I forgot what a great recipe this is. 3 days later it's still bubbling away. Holy Smokes!
Now I kept everything the same. I just brewed more of it! Just now started reading all the additional comments & posts. I didn't realize all the adjustments & changes available to this recipe.
I've got 4 taps in my Kegorator, So I'm thinking I may just have to dedicate 1 to variations of this Hard Apple Cider.
It's such a small boil I had to bring out pots I haven't used in 5 years! I'm doing 10 gallon batches on a regular basis now. I'm not using my fermentation chamber which I never do. Using dry yeast again! I swore off dry yeast years ago. Using Nottingham again, I love it. It's a trip back in time!
The fact that it's so easy to brew is a plus!
Now I kept everything the same. I just brewed more of it! Just now started reading all the additional comments & posts. I didn't realize all the adjustments & changes available to this recipe.
I've got 4 taps in my Kegorator, So I'm thinking I may just have to dedicate 1 to variations of this Hard Apple Cider.
It's such a small boil I had to bring out pots I haven't used in 5 years! I'm doing 10 gallon batches on a regular basis now. I'm not using my fermentation chamber which I never do. Using dry yeast again! I swore off dry yeast years ago. Using Nottingham again, I love it. It's a trip back in time!
The fact that it's so easy to brew is a plus!
Just wanted to check in and report that I've made a few batches of this, and it's basically the best cider I've ever had. Very little beer flavor - just does a great job of providing some complexity and depth to the cider.
Already looking forward to next year's apples - this is going in my regular rotation!
Already looking forward to next year's apples - this is going in my regular rotation!
I just tapped a 5-gal keg of cider to which I added 3 lbs of Munich LME during the tail end of the initial fermentation- just poured slightly warmed LME right into the fermenter with no boil needed. The resulting flavor has strong apple notes with a smooth malt sweetness with light caramel notes. This graff has been a hit with beer and cider-drinkers alike.
I've used wheat LME before and the flavor was very subtle and definitely less sweet than Munich LME.
You might consider Munich LME and skip the dextrins and wheat malt. LME contains plenty of dextrins and any sort of more caremel-y malt would cover up the wheat malt flavor anyways.
orbless
Member
for bottling, how much dextrose should I add for carbonation on a 5 gallon batch? 5oz seem right?
Sure, somewhere in that range should be good - I've made some smaller and odd-volume batches, and I usually skip the bottling bucket step, so I add one "Domino Dot" (~2.5 gram sugar cube) to each 12oz bottle. That works out to about the same sugar concentration as 5 oz / 5 gal, and I typically get good carbonation after a couple weeks.
I find somewhere between 3 and 3.5oz of sugar for a 5 gal batch to give the carbonation I like. That usually yields around 1.9-2.1 vol of CO2. If you want more go with more, but I rarely go over 3.5oz anymore.
Look up a bottle priming calculator and see what that gives you.
Look up a bottle priming calculator and see what that gives you.
bstacy1974
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Made a 2.5 gal batch of Graff today. I had some crystal malts I needed to purge from my inventory and the local supermarket had juice on sale. Because I didn't plan very well, I had some hiccups. But I think it will be ok.
I've scanned a few pages, but let's face it, this is a monster thread. So, what's the highest IBU for this recipe? The original post says to keep it low. But can this handle around 20 IBU of Cascade? Just curious.
I've scanned a few pages, but let's face it, this is a monster thread. So, what's the highest IBU for this recipe? The original post says to keep it low. But can this handle around 20 IBU of Cascade? Just curious.
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Depends on largely on the acidity of the juice you use. A high-acid juice will clash with hop bitterness. A lower-acid juice such as most juices from the grocery store will do better with more IBUs. Adding in a substantial portion of malt will also help balance IBUs. I usually just dry hop so can't comment on 20 IBU from personal experience.
For bottling I use a 12 oz can of apple juice concentrate. There
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Did this for my first batch of Homebrew ever and followed the recipe completely. I used Cascade hops.
I bottled 5 days ago and cracked open one to taste "test" and I all I can is wow. Amazing not dry at all very nice smooth flavor and a little bit of carbonation so far. I can't wait for 2 weeks more
I bottled 5 days ago and cracked open one to taste "test" and I all I can is wow. Amazing not dry at all very nice smooth flavor and a little bit of carbonation so far. I can't wait for 2 weeks more
I would like to make a half beer half cider graff. I was thinking I would make a gallon of Barleywine and then after the primary fermentation was complete add a gallon of cider to the primary for a secondary fermentation. I’m thinking now that even after it is cut, the IBUs might be too high if I start with a Barleywine. Thing is though, this would I think be a more beer focused graff, so if there’s anyone who has done something like this, I’m all ears.
For the past 4 years I've done a Graf with 50% wort and 50% cider. The beer base is an Altbier and has an IBU of 20ish, and ABV in the 6.0% range. It earned a 2nd place in the Greg Noonan memorial homebrew competition(Burlington,VT) this year. I'm not sure I would want more bitterness , or a higher ABV, but that's me (and the folks I give samples to). I know other brewers have upped both, so it comes down to : What do you like?
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What yeast do you use?
What yeast do you use? Most times I use WY1007 because late September/early October is the time I do my Altbiers. This year I got some cider early, so just used Munton's Gold dry yeast. I have done the wort as AG in the past, but this year just did a PM with 3 lb. LME and about 3 lb of grains.
Having read Denny's post of his success using WY1450 in a cider, that's what I'm going to try next year.
Having read Denny's post of his success using WY1450 in a cider, that's what I'm going to try next year.
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Thanks
hopness monster
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I think that I will make my Barleywine graff with cherry cider rather than apple cider. The idea being a strong beer/graff with the tartness of the cherry and cherry flavor that is so excellent in a vintage port.
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Is your cherry cider just cherry juice?
MikeTodd
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bstacy1974
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Bottled 2 cases last weekend. Tried one last night. This was my second batch of Graff. I used some washed Mangrove Jack's M44. Also added some flaked oats to the mash. Apple juice was half regular apple and half honey crisp apple. Super cloudy at this point. But tasty none the less.
So, it's finally fully carbed for me today and so I cracked one open and i can't say it's amazing. It's good but a bit too dry, my OG was 1.055 and it finished at 1.005 with s-04. This was my first so I didn't really know what to do raise the gravity. Better luck next time I guess!
orbless
Member
Last bottle from my first batch. Made from apples from three different areas of SF Bay Area, Newton Pippin from my yard in SF, Fujis from Berkeley and a large red apple form Vallejo. 5 gallon batch basically following the recipe. Used WLP001 California Ale yeast. Has a bit of residual sweetness, may be mostly from the malt but does retain some really nice apple flavor. I think the blend of fresh yard grown apples helped with depth of flavor. Bottled early November, drank most for Thanksgiving. Would definitely brew again, but think I want to do a darker version first, maybe a porter grain bill with a 3:2 apple to wort ratio.
