Graff (Malty, slightly hopped cider)

[steveusmximus]

New guy here. After reading every post on this thread, I decided I should register. I've got 2 batches of Graff at about 1 week in the primary, 1 batch I used whole foods unfiltered apple juice, and the other I used whole foods spiced cider. O.G. Was 1.062 on both, using Nottingham Ale Yeast. Can't wait it try this stuff!


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You will love this stuff " ajd " , I guarantee !


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[Cadrian]

So Ive been looking into making a graff.... the idea of it being like a sour stout or sour brown sort of really interests me. Not a huge cider fan, so I dont necessarily want it to taste like cider, I just want the tartness.

Ive been looking at the Gunslinger recipe....

4 Gallon, 60 min boil.

3.3 lbs Amber LME
1 lb. Crystal 120
3/4 lb. Black Patent
1/2 lb. Roasted Barley
1/2 lb. Smoke Malt
2 oz. Tortified Wheat

1oz Centennial (9.7%) @ 60
.5 Cascade (7.5%) @ 60
1.5 Cascade (7.5%) @ 20

After the boil, top off with 2.75 gallons Apple Juice

Pitch US-05

Ferment for 21 days @ ~68 degrees.

Which was posted on homebrew talk forum....
Then I found the suppose to be brewing tv recipe which is posted on their site which is suppose to be the same recipe but varys hugely.

3.3 lbs Amber LME
1 lb Crystal 120
12 oz Special B
8 oz Smoked Malt
8 oz Roasted Barley
4 oz. Chocolate Wheat
1 oz Centennial hops @ 60 min
1 oz Cascade @ 60 min
1.5 oz Cascade @ 20 min

huge difference, I like the brewing tv recipe better just due to the special b addition, but seems like a ton of speciality grains. Oh ill for sure be taking out the smoked malt not a fan of that.

 

[hopbrad]

what are everyones Final Gravities coming in at? my last batch with s-04 went down to 1.002. fermented at 68F for 2 weeks then room temp for the 3rd week - 80F

 

[toast26]

I am sitting at 1.010 after three weeks. Kegging tomorrow. Used Windsor yeast, which may have contributed to the higher FG.

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[Jasonmasters]

Just brewed my first 5 gallons of this Saturday. here's the recipe I used

3 gallons organic pasteurized apple juice
2 gallons water
3lb Light DME
2lb brown sugar
1oz cascade hops (30 min boil, added hops at 30 mins as well)

1/2 tsp of apple pie spice at 10 min! smells amazing

did 4 gallons with champagne yeast and one gallon with beer yeast.

SG 1.070

 

[JRapp]

Just bottled my version of this, Hydro sample tasted good, although suprisingly sweet at 1.012.

4 gallons various juices.
1 gallon water
1lb amber DME
1lb Light DME
.5lb Turbidino sugar
4oz crystal 60
3oz crystal 90
2oz honey malt
(I went a little overboard)
2oz of I forget, something that they told me to use instead of torrified wheat since they were all out.
.5oz of brewers gold @30

Safale 04 @ 62 for 3 weeks
few days in fridge to drop the floaties.


I was initially pessimistic, huge floaties that looked remarkably similar to my orange cats hairballs riddled the carboy, but like I said, hydro tasted pretty dang good. Cant wait to try it in a few weeks.

 

[hunter_le five]

Tapped my second batch of this tonight. Good stuff. I brewed this one back in November, so it's been aging all winter.


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[Peepmachine]

This sounds absolutely delicious! Im not set up for all grain, do you need to sparge the last bit of water, or is there a way to steep grains Extract-style? Im still a noob with out the space for the good setup yet, lol.

 

[BrewerBear]

This sounds absolutely delicious! Im not set up for all grain, do you need to sparge the last bit of water, or is there a way to steep grains Extract-style? Im still a noob with out the space for the good setup yet, lol.

You can steep them and it will work fine.

 

[brewski09]

Look up brew in a bag BIAB

 

[hopbrad]

for yeast, ive used S-05 and t-58. S-05 i enjoyed more. Trying out s-04 now, its in the fermenter.

i tried my first s-04 bottle this week. 3 week primary, 3 week bottle. It had a little off taste on the backend, but nice apple/champagne flavor upfront. i think a month or 2 of bottle aging and it will turn out nice.
but so far s-05 is the winner for this recipe. ill update again after some aging on the s-04

 

[Riot]

I tried rotund an answer, but this thread is huge and hard to navigate. Has anyone tried this with saison yeast? I've done a couple of batches with clean ale yeasts, I want something more interesting this time.

 

[brewski09]

No, but that sounds like it's either going to be great or terrible. I'd try a small batch though just to see.


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[Riot]

It's too late for a small batch. I've got a 1.5 litre starter on stir and another 12 litres of juice ready to go. I'm hoping for great, worst case it gets opened up as fair game to the house while I drink the beer I'm happy with. I can always find someone thrilled to drink mediocre booze.

 

[Urkelbot]

What's the most crystal malt anyone has added? I just brewed a 2.5 gallon batch with 2 lbs 2 row, 1/5 lb torrified wheat, and 1 lb crystal 60 and mashed at 158. The fg was 1.011 and the cider is excellent. How much is too much crystal malt?

 

[MedicMang]

Making tomorrow.


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[Riot]

Urkelbot, I don't know about top end crystal, but I thought my most recent batch was pushing it before I saw your recipe. 1lb caraamber, half a lb crystal 77 and its looking to finish about 1.012. I was definitely trying for a sweeter product compared to previous attempts.

 

[brewski09]

It's too much when it no longer tastes good. If you wanted to add more crystal malts I might go with more variety. If you like it as is though, leave the recipe alone and keep making it.


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[bfinleyui]

Making this tonight. Excited to have a quick brew day versus having to lug everything around.

 

[ajd]

Finally tried my Graff after a month in the bottle, this stuff is good! It's unlike anything I've had before.


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[laiced]

I am curious - would adding Truvia and priming sugar at the same time hinder bottle carbing? I added 3 tablespoons of Truvia fir a bit if extra sweetness. I also added my boiled priming sugar to the bottling bucket (after being cooled), and swirled to mix well.
The Graff has been in bottles for 2 weeks now and there is barely a hiss when a cap is popped.


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[brewski09]

It could. Since truvia isn't a straight sugar, it could kill fermentation like any other man made derivative. For the record, it's a sugar alcohol (whatever that is) and isn't absorbed into the body completely like real sugar. Get a starter going and add some to see if it halted fermentation.

 

[Arristillius]

My first brew, and first batch of graff, is finally ready-ish this coming sunday would be 2 weeks since bottling but I had some last night and it was very good, I followed the recipe with the only substitution being standard wheat in place of torrified wheat, the brew shop guys said it would be the same, and they couldn't get torrified anymore.

tasting it I find it has a green apple flavor up front, with a nice citrus flavor from the hops, *I used citra* I think the flavors blend nicely, I wish it was a tad bit maltier though, was thinking of adding more DME on the next batch, not sure if that would work to make it a bit sweeter maybe?

 

[1randito]

I have a couple questions about bottling this.....
1. After fermentation, does this need priming like beer? And if so what is best for sweetener- DME, more juice, or??? And what amount?
2. Do you need to pasteurize after it's bottled?

I've never done cider, but read up on lots of different ways of doing it and just looking to not have bottle bombs. With 250 pages of this thread, I went through a lot looking for these answers and didn't see them. Thanks so much!

 

[Riot]

I've always used apple juice, it's packaged pasteurized with a listed sugar content. Can't get much better than that for ease of use.

 

[Loodachris]

I used corn sugar for my first batch but my next one I will use apple juice for sure. Needs to be a bit more tart and adding juice to prime will help. Just like you I also wonder how much juice.

 

[bfinleyui]

Just pitched my first batch of this stuff. Went word-for-word with the recipe above.

4 gallons store-brand apple juice
1lb amber dme
1lb light due
.5lb 120l
1oz torrified red wheat
.4oz cascade (mine was a bit higher AA, so I dropped it down)

It's really dark out of the boil… Will this lighten up, or did I do something wrong (steeped to high? boiled too harsh?)

Thanks.

 

[brewski09]

The 120L will darken stuff pretty quickly and that's actually a lot of 120L. I haven't made this yet so I don't know if it will lighten or not. Just my two cents on the 120L.


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[Arristillius]

Just pitched my first batch of this stuff. Went word-for-word with the recipe above.

4 gallons store-brand apple juice
1lb amber dme
1lb light due
.5lb 120l
1oz torrified red wheat
.4oz cascade (mine was a bit higher AA, so I dropped it down)

It's really dark out of the boil… Will this lighten up, or did I do something wrong (steeped to high? boiled too harsh?)

Thanks.

My first batch has a light yellow/amber color and used 60L my second batch in the fermenter now used 120L because I ferment in clear better bottle carboys, I can tell you that the color difference is minimal, like if you look at the top of this page my first and second batches are about as close in color as the top and bottom of the beer colored header on the top of the forum, I think it will end up only slightly darker than a pale yellow.

 

[dlester]

Interesting, looks like a good recipe.

.

 

[MedicMang]

The whole room that this fermentation is happening in smells like straight dung. Crazy rhino fart action. Like rotten eggs. I need to remember to add some nutrient next time.


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[brewski09]

The whole room that this fermentation is happening in smells like straight dung. Crazy rhino fart action. Like rotten eggs. I need to remember to add some nutrient next time.


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Add the nutrient now


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[MedicMang]

The worst is over now. It was just horrible the other day. I don't care as much as the lady does.


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[Arristillius]

The worst is over now. It was just horrible the other day. I don't care as much as the lady does.


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Did you make any changes to the recipe? I thought wort removes the need for nutrients? I am sitting right next to my second batch and neither batch had the slightest odor.

 

[Riot]

I think it depends on the yeast strain as much as anything. My last batch was at least 50% malt based sugar, and it still smelled pretty sulferous even with some added nutrient. One of my earlier batches had less malt, less nutrient and more sugar without any off smells.

 

[MedicMang]

Did you make any changes to the recipe? I thought wort removes the need for nutrients? I am sitting right next to my second batch and neither batch had the slightest odor.

Original recipe. Nottingham yeast, rehydrated. Don't know. It was only for a couples days during high krausen. I think it's done. Every cider that I have made without nutrients smelled like farts. It's not a big deal. I just laughed a bit the day after pitching since my girl hates it. I don't care. I know it's working then.


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[brick]

I just opened my first bottle. This stuff is tart! It's drinkable but only just. I'll probably leave it another month or more and hope for the best.

 

[Helly]

Put my first batch of this in the keg Saturday. I made it without hops and used wlp 005. It tasted great after 15 day primary. I sealed it up with some priming sugar and hope to tap it very soon. I tried and liked the Apple Bee recipe but I think I've found a real winner with this one. Thanks for sharing.


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[Cainmos]

I got some teamaker hops growing this year. I wonder how they would contribute to this.


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[Texconsinite]

So, made 3 gallons of this over the weekend, using a slightly modified version of your recipe

4oz Crystal 20L, steeped at 155 for 30 min (forgot to sparge)
1 lb of Wheat LME
.3 oz of Hersbrucker 2.0AA hops
Boiled for 30 min
2 Gallons of 100% Apple Juice
1 packet US-04

I know the original recipe calls for 6AA hops, so im thinking the milder hersbrucker would be like cutting the hops down.

Cooled the wort in fridge to below 100, then split the wort into a 2 gallon and 1 gallon fermenters and added apple juice. The OGs were 1.049 (1g) and 1.044 (2g). My plan is to try doing something slightly different with the 1 gallon, possibly dry hopping with less than .1 of hersbrucker after 5-7 days.
Is this a terrible idea, or does someone else have a better one?