Going from 5- to 10-gallon batches, economically

[DeltaNu1142]

TL;DR: Talk me out of brewing bigger batches.

I've made two 5-gallon batches, and because I've stumbled across a 15-gallon Blichmann Boilermaker at a price I can't pass up, I'm considering how to make the move to 10-gallon batches... the appeal being, of course, twice the product with only a little extra effort. Upon acquiring this BK, I'm going to have some challenges related to temperature-controlled fermentation & dispensing.

Existing equipment:

• Propane burner
• 8-gallon aluminum boil kettle (to be upgraded to 15-gal BK)
• 10-gallon round cooler MLT (which I could probably turn around & ferment in)
• glass-front beverage cooler as fermentation chamber on a STC-1000 (in the garage, holds 6.5-gal carboy comfortably, but not much else)
• side-by-side kegerator fridge with two taps (in the garage, holds one 1/2 keg, OR one 1/4 keg plus one ball-lock keg, OR, two ball-lock kegs, maybe three)

Bottlenecks:

• My existing fermentation chamber won't hold more than one carboy. I'm in Florida; both inside and outside are usually too hot for unregulated-temp fermentation.
• I'm sure dispensing capacity will become an issue. I don't want to tap two kegs of the same beer... but if I'm filling two ball-lock kegs, I'll want to keep them both at serving temp. This is really less a concern than fermentation, since I could always use my existing fermentation chamber to age/keep the second keg.

As I type this out, all I can think is, "First world problems"... right? But I'm wondering if others have been in a similar situation, and how they proceeded, without getting too deep in the hole. I'm wondering whether I could move the STC-1000 over to the kegerator & use that for fermentation, but then I'd be without a kegerator for 4-6 (or more) weeks at a time. To get around that, I could get a chest freezer & another STC-1000 and move dispensing inside the house. The trouble with that is where I want to put it requires some moderate construction (punching through walls & drilling tile) and SWMBO approval... along with probably two-layer insulated PVC pipe + cold air fan, etc.

Maybe I don't want to solve this all in the short term & just stick with (what were until this morning) perfectly adequate 5-gallon brews. Thoughts?

 

[Temp81]

Not sure what temperature you keep your kegerator at for serving temps, but you could possibly pitch lager yeast in half your batch and ferment in your kegerator. Or just get another dorm fridge and stc-1000, which shouldn't be too heavy on the pocket book.

 

[solbes]

Pretty good idea by Temp above. I also have a 15 gallon kettle, but haven't figured out a way to get around some of the problems the OP mentioned.

 

[fergusmj]

You can always do a natural carb on the 2nd keg. This is what I do when my kegerator is full and I have a keg ready to fill but no space. Mix in sugar when I keg it, purge with co2, then store it in the closet and let it naturally carb. Then, when I'm ready, just pop it in the fridge for a couple of days to let it cool.

 

[DeltaNu1142]

Not sure what temperature you keep your kegerator at for serving temps, but you could possibly pitch lager yeast in half your batch and ferment in your kegerator. Or just get another dorm fridge and stc-1000, which shouldn't be too heavy on the pocket book.

I serve at between 40-45 deg F. That'll be too low for anything I've made so far.

You can always do a natural carb on the 2nd keg. This is what I do when my kegerator is full and I have a keg ready to fill but no space. Mix in sugar when I keg it, purge with co2, then store it in the closet and let it naturally carb. Then, when I'm ready, just pop it in the fridge for a couple of days to let it cool.

It doesn't address my fermentation issue, but to prolong serving, I like this idea... at what temp do you carb the 2nd keg, usually? Is 70-75 deg F OK?

 

[DeltaNu1142]

I'm searching the forums for the use of corny kegs as primary fermenters. If I can fit two 5-gal cornys in my cooler, I can ferment in those, and then transfer to clean cornys for aging/dispensing. It's less than $100 for two serviceable cornys.

 

[TrickyDick]

15 gallon kettle is designed for 7.5 gallon batch. If your serious about 10 gallon batches. Go to a 20 gallon kettle....


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[atom]

15 gallon kettle is designed for 7.5 gallon batch. If your serious about 10 gallon batches. Go to a 20 gallon kettle....


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i do 11 gallon batches in my 15.5 gallon kettle often. no problem, just have some fermcap on hand.

 

[sweetcell]

I'm in Florida; both inside and outside are usually too hot for unregulated-temp fermentation.

pitch a saison yeast in half your batch. heat shouldn't be a problem, certainly not indoor temps (i'm assuming your house doesn't get over 100*F...)

i brew 11 gallons at a time and always make 2 different beers. sometimes i just use different yeasts or dry-hops, sometimes i pull off half the batch via a single-pass through my chiller, then resume boiling with the second half and do late hope additions (AKA how to get a saison/belgian and an IPA from the same wort).

longer-term you might want to pursue temp control for both carboys, but using saison yeast would get you started down the path of double batches.

 

[TrickyDick]

i do 11 gallon batches in my 15.5 gallon kettle often. no problem, just have some fermcap on hand.

I do it as well, but it's really an undersized kettle. When boiling at an appropriate intensity you will be getting boilovers. Fermcap is not a universal solution. Granted there are things you can do to mitigate: turn down intensity and use more hops, boil smaller volume and top off, etc. let's not talk about 90 min full wort boils either. Not that it can't be done, but not easily...

Just needs to be aware of this so I was pointing it out. I'd like to move to 20 gallon and wish I had started with 20 gallon kettles from the get-go for ten gallon batches. Truth be told I can't drink that much and end up giving to friends etc.

TD


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[DeltaNu1142]

15 gallon kettle is designed for 7.5 gallon batch. If your serious about 10 gallon batches. Go to a 20 gallon kettle....

Thanks--but I'm not. Serious, that is. I just can't pass up this 15-gallon BK.

 

[TrickyDick]

I totally get it.


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[DeltaNu1142]

I measured my fermenter... it's VERY close. The single corny appears to hit the center line of the cooler. Maybe with just a little front-to-back offset, I'll be able to make two cornys fit. There's only one way to find out.

Of course, finding a 10-gallon corny would be ideal. I wouldn't have given keg fermenting a single thought if it weren't for reading it in this forum.

 

[Renoun]

I measured my fermenter... it's VERY close. The single corny appears to hit the center line of the cooler.

Any chance you can fit one of the 60l Speidel fermentors in it? If a 15.75D x 24"H fits you could ferment in a single vessel.

 

[DeltaNu1142]

Any chance you can fit one of the 60l Speidel fermentors in it? If a 15.75D x 24"H fits you could ferment in a single vessel.

I like that idea--but it's unlikely. A 6.5-gallon carboy at 12" diameter barely fits. It's one of those electronic coolers, and there's a large step/shelf toward the back of the floor that limits the footprint of anything I put in there. It works nicely as a place for my blow-up tube airlock jug, though.

As much as I'd like to use a single fermenter, I think two cornys are my best bet with this setup, if they'll fit. Besides, I'll still need additional kegs to hold more beer. I currently just have the single ball lock.

 

[lhommedieu]

I'm going to move from 5 gallon batches to 10 gallon batches, and am budgeting for a 20 gallon Blichmann Boilermaker. My gravity system is fine for 5 gallon batches, but for 10 gallon batches I really don't feel like lifting my boil kettle off my Blichmann floor burner to the requisite height to drain into my carboys - so I'm also going to invest in a March pump to move my wort through a plate cooler before collecting the wort. Of course, I could invest in the extension legs but a pump serves my needs better (see below). My fermentation container (chest freezer with temperature controller) is large enough to hold two 6 gallon carboys, and my other pots and kettles are sufficient for 10 gallon batches - so no change is required there.

Budgeting is a tricky issue as there are always bells and whistles to consider for the future. In my case I think that 10 gallon batches will be my limit, so I am willing to invest in a Blichmann Boilermaker as this will allow me to filter through a hop blocker and hop rocket on the way to the chiller. That's a large investment up front but I think that it will serve me well in the long run. My needs are particular because I want to start concentrating on making lagers and using hop flowers instead of pellets, and of course I will need to consider how to lager my beers, as well. Fortunately I have a storm cellar that gets cold enough in the winter to lager, so I may not have to invest in a second chest freezer for lagering.

 

[Renoun]

I like that idea--but it's unlikely. A 6.5-gallon carboy at 12" diameter barely fits. It's one of those electronic coolers, and there's a large step/shelf toward the back of the floor that limits the footprint of anything I put in there.

Perhaps it is worth watching Craig's List for a cheap/free refrigerator that is the better sized for larger batches. If you have patience and the ability to respond quickly you can find something that will work better for you.

 

[yeahfairly]

I'm going to move from 5 gallon batches to 10 gallon batches, and am budgeting for a 20 gallon Blichmann Boilermaker. My gravity system is fine for 5 gallon batches, but for 10 gallon batches I really don't feel like lifting my boil kettle off my Blichmann floor burner to the requisite height to drain into my carboys - so I'm also going to invest in a March pump to move my wort through a plate cooler before collecting the wort. Of course, I could invest in the extension legs but a pump serves my needs better (see below). My fermentation container (chest freezer with temperature controller) is large enough to hold two 6 gallon carboys, and my other pots and kettles are sufficient for 10 gallon batches - so no change is required there.

Budgeting is a tricky issue as there are always bells and whistles to consider for the future. In my case I think that 10 gallon batches will be my limit, so I am willing to invest in a Blichmann Boilermaker as this will allow me to filter through a hop blocker and hop rocket on the way to the chiller. That's a large investment up front but I think that it will serve me well in the long run. My needs are particular because I want to start concentrating on making lagers and using hop flowers instead of pellets, and of course I will need to consider how to lager my beers, as well. Fortunately I have a storm cellar that gets cold enough in the winter to lager, so I may not have to invest in a second chest freezer for lagering.

20 Gallon Spikes Kettle with 2 welded ports for $250..... You could buy two for the price of a Blichmann........ Just sayin........

 

[lhommedieu]

20 Gallon Spikes Kettle with 2 welded ports for $250..... You could buy two for the price of a Blichmann........ Just sayin........

Thanks! I have the $250. For ideosyncratic reasons I am attracted to the hop blocker/hop rocket/plate chiller combination described above. I'm going to write them and ask them about it. If it's as simple as adding on 90 degree angle dip tube then I'm going to consider this option. I could still, of course, continue to use my bazooka screen while budgeting for the hop rocket and plate chiller.

 

[yeahfairly]

Thanks! I have the $250. For ideosyncratic reasons I am attracted to the hop blocker/hop rocket/plate chiller combination described above. I'm going to write them and ask them about it.

Yup.... I haven't seen any negative reviews on Spike's Kettles. I am buying myself two for Christmas (screw Santa's Naughty and Nice list)! The welds on the Spike Kettles look solid, the kettles are 1.2mm thick and the price leaves you room to add the bells and whistles.

 

[lhommedieu]

I agree that they look good, and I'm waiting for their response. As I brew more I find that I have less need for bells and whistles. I don't really need, for example, a sight glass on my brew kettle, when simply placing notches on my long ss spoon, and checking for SG and pH will do. I'm also favoring digital thermometers over the analog models. I am finding that as I gear up to larger batches, I am getting rid of more stuff that seemed important at the time, but is unnecessary to my process now.

The only exception is my lauter tun, wherein a sight glass and accurate analog thermometer is a must.

Thanks for the advice.

Steve

 

[DeltaNu1142]

20 Gallon Spikes Kettle with 2 welded ports for $250..... You could buy two for the price of a Blichmann........ Just sayin........

Well, I brought home the 15-gallon Boilermaker with sight glass, valve & temp gauge for $275 today. It was a CL find, and what prompted me to start this thread.

 

[lhommedieu]

lol. That's the Blichmann that I'd like get as a larger lauter tun compared to my current 10 gallon pot. Great find.

 

[wilserbrewer]

You DON'T want to ferment in your 10 gallon cooler mash tun.

For both the insulation, and sanitation.




Wilserbrewer
Http://biabbags.webs.com/

 

[DurtyChemist]

Start brewing sours and bacteria beers. They won't care what the temperatures are

Could you possibly convert the kettle to a mash tun, sell the cooler and make bigger 5 gallon beers?

 

[mbobhat]

I'm not sure if mentioned but I ferment in a sanke keg 15.5 gal. That has made a huge difference going to larger batches, I do probably about 8 gallons at most, my BK is 10.5 gallons. Then I have a 6.5 gallon glass carboy that can usually fit all my beer for secondary if need space or whatever.

Plus the SS keg is more easily temp controlled with the metal and all, it fits pretty well in my tiny chest freezer so I can brew in summer or winter.

ADDED: Also, if you wanted to get crazy, and I've thought about it, you could turn your keg to do double duty, such as mashtun/fermenter. You just have to be comfortable cutting a hole in the top of it.

 

[govner1]

15 gallon kettle is designed for 7.5 gallon batch. If your serious about 10 gallon batches. Go to a 20 gallon kettle....


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+1 on this. A 15 g BK isn't going to be big enough. I use s 15 g for 6 g batches. Also, your MLT needs are going to have to be considered. You'll need at least something in the 15-20 g range.
I'm curious about your comment re using your current MLT for fermentation. How would that work?

 

[sweetcell]

to offer an alternative opinion: i use a 15 gal mashtun and 15 gal kettle for 10 gallon batches. having a 20 gal BK would be nice, but i get by just fine with my 15.

the two tricks that make this doable: 1) fermcap; and 2) pay attention as boil is reached, don't crank your gas to 110% and walk away - be ready to back off the heat as you come up to a boil. you don't a raging boil with wort jumping out of the kettle, "vigorous" doesn't mean "violent".

OP, making 10 gallon batches in a 15 gal BK is possible. requires some additional effort but it's entirely feasible.

morebeer has 14 gal kettles (closer to 15) with 2 ports for $139. hard to beat that price.

 

[lhommedieu]

If it works for you, and it's a less expensive option, then that's ideal. I'm easily distracted and like a buffer of sorts for 10 gallon brews. Down the line, I'd like to use a 12 gallon conical, so a 20 gallon brew kettle makes sense for me.


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[TrickyDick]

True, it is feasible to brew 11 gallon batches (to wind up with two full corny kegs) in 15 gallon kettles. I just wanted to point out one thing to be aware of.
When adjusting the burners to a less intense boil in order to avoid boilovers, you will decrease hop utilization.
I find that you will require more bittering hops to achieve desired level of bitterness. It is noticeable for sure but may not be immediately apparent unless you compare with a beer boiled more vigorously for instance.
You will need to experiment. There could be a way to adjust in brewing software for hop utilization % tweaking but I've not yet tackled this.

Another thing to consider is where to put all your spent grains. 5 gallon batch worth might be easy to put into general garbage for pickup. ten gallon batch worth of anything near 1.050 or over is a lot of spent grains to deal with. I found a pig farmer who (sometimes) will pick up the spent grains.

TD

 

[lhommedieu]

My spent grains go into my mulch pile. The worms seem to enjoy them...



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[fergusmj]

I serve at between 40-45 deg F. That'll be too low for anything I've made so far.


It doesn't address my fermentation issue, but to prolong serving, I like this idea... at what temp do you carb the 2nd keg, usually? Is 70-75 deg F OK?

Yep, just the normal bottle carbing temp. Basically just a big bottle

 

[lhommedieu]

Spike Brewing emailed me yesterday with a suggestion for 90 degree dip tube with a compression fitting from Brewhardware.com. Looks like I'm good to go...