Going all grain

[z987k]

Ok well I've saved up some money to take the plunge to All grain. Here's the plan please critique or say something if something's not right.

I'm going to go buy a propane turkey fryer, but I'm not sure on what size to get... I was just planning on picking up a cheaper one at wallyworld, unless I can find something really cheap on craigslist or ebay. I'm going to assume that will come with a descent size Al stockpot, which will give me 2 that one and my 6 gal one I have right now. I was thinking the 6 gal would do for the boils anyways because I have never had any problems with a boil over at all with my partial boils, but then again those are partials. And then I found this: http://www.dmartstores.com/matu28eltufr.html
Hmmm for all us apartment dwellers, it even has a drain, only 28qts - 7 gal though is that deep enough?

Next I need a MLT, again a cheap cooler at wallyworld plus the extra stuff to make it a mlt from homedepot as per someone's how-to I have bookmarked here. I'm not quite sure on the size though, I'd like to be able to do whatever with it including slightly bigger beers(basically so I don't have to but another.) The square ones are a lot cheaper and I'll be batch sparging. I was thinking about going with this one: http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5663765

That should be all I need since I can heat water for the sparging in the second pot and use that to pour in the MLT which will drain into the first pot to boil. I guess I might need a large sturdy spoon to.

Next is buying some grain. I'm going to buy base grains in what I would consider bulk from the lhbs since I think their prices are good, and then get smaller amounts of specialty grains. So questions are 1 whats a good base malt if I like wheats a lot, and I think I'm really starting to like more hoppy beers as well. I was thinking a 50lbs sack of 2 row and another of wheat. The LHBS sells briess crushed pale ale (2row) and pale malt (2 row) for 40.71 and 38.58 respectively for the 50lb bags, is this a good price? The wheat is 43.58. Uncrushed is roughly $5 cheaper...so....

How many beers can you get out of a 50lbs sack say assuming OG's around 50 and 60?


Can't wait!

 

[Yooper]

Welcome to the dark side! Let's see about those questions-

1. 6 gallons is NOT big enough- You will be boiling 6-7 gallons of wort for an hour or so to end up with 5 gallons. I used my 30 quart turkey fryer yesterday for the first time (indoors on top of the stove, though) and I was nervous about it. I boil 6.41 gallons to end up with a little over 5 at the end. 6 gallons is a nice sized pot to heat up the water for the mash and sparge, though! Someone around here bought an electric turkey fryer, and didn't have good results getting it to boil, but I can't remember who that was. Maybe try a search for electric turkey fryer.

2. I bought a 60 quart cooler just like that for MLT. Unfortunately, it didn't work for me. But someone else posted that they saw it in again. We just talked about this a couple of days ago, here: https://www.homebrewtalk.com/showthread.php?t=29608

3. Most of my beers that size use 10-12 pounds or so of base malt. It depends on your efficiency, though. My recipe yesterday used 9 pounds of MO for a s.g of 1.050.

 

[zoebisch01]

>> - 7 gal though is that deep enough?

That is really stretching it imo. You are going to have to watch boil overs like a hawk and probably have to skim off the break as it appears. I have a 9 gallon pot, and with between 6 and 7 gallons of wort I can still get right to the top...did have one boil over once iirc.

>>http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=5663765

Should work fine for you

>>That should be all I need since I can heat water for the sparging in the second pot and use that to pour in the MLT which will drain into the first pot to boil. I guess I might need a large sturdy spoon to.

Yeah the pot you have is fine. A long enough spoon that is strong enough is essential.

>>The LHBS sells briess crushed pale ale (2row) and pale malt (2 row) for 40.71 and 38.58 respectively for the 50lb bags, is this a good price? The wheat is 43.58. Uncrushed is roughly $5 cheaper...so....

That is about normal for grain. I would caution against crushed grain bulk buys because you really should store it (ask EdWort to show you a picture of the best method for this). It takes a while to go through 50# on 5 gallon batches.

>>How many beers can you get out of a 50lbs sack say assuming OG's around 50 and 60?

You should be able to get at least 4 x5gallon batches, 5 if your efficiency is really good. So that's what like 8 to 10 cases or 192 to 240 12 oz beers.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

Electric turkey fryer? WTF? Wow... that would be awesome if it would work. Just make sure you're hooking it up to a GCFI. Something about that concept worries me, though I can't really say why.

As for the cooler, it will work. I looked at that exact one, but ultimately decided to go with something a little wider and less deep. Remember, the depth is going to encourage a stuck sparge if you have a big grain bill. But with that said, I'm sure that one will work fine, I doubt the bottom surface area is any less than on the regular 10 gallon coolers that most people are using. I got a Coleman Xtreme from Wallyworld. It wasn't the 70 quart size, I think it was 60. And I am happy with it (although it requires a couple of copper elbows to get the manifold to sit on the bottom- the drain is actually lower than the floor of the cooler).

As for the 6 gallon kettle not being enough, I sort of disagree. I would love a bigger kettle, but I manage 5 gallon batches in a 6 gallon kettle. The trick is you hold back the last half gallon of wort until 30 minutes into the boil. That last half gallon is still boiled for 30 minutes, so it's sanitized, no doubt. It's a bit of a PITA, and there will be some proteins in the hot break that you won't be able to skim off at that point without removing hops, but it's totally workable and my beers still come out very clear if I use a bit of Irish Moss.


Figure a typical grain bill of 2 lbs of grain per gallon of finished beer. So that's 10 pounds, but figure 1-3 of those pounds will be specialty grains. I guess how much base grains versus specialty you use depends on the kind of beer you like. Wheats, eh? Then you will probably want a slightly coarser crush, so maybe add an extra pound because your efficiency will be a touch on the low side unless you use a bunch of rice hulls (if buying grain in bulk, it's probably cheaper to do a coarse crush than to pay retail prices for a pound of hulls. You will probably still need some hulls though, just not as much).

Since you like wheats, I say pick up some pils for your 2-row, as the lightness of the malt helps the wheat shine through more. Most Hefe recipes I've seen call for Pils. What do they charge for Pils?

 

[abracadabra]

It's hard to advise someone you don't know, but since you've asked here goes.

My first piece of advice is to slow down, no need to rush into All Grain. Sounds like you are doing extract and it possible to make a good beer that way.

It's better to build a nice system slowly than a cheap system quickly.

If it were me I'd put the money you'll spend on a 50 lbs sack of grain on upgrading equipment. Plenty of time to buy grain in bulk after you've built a system you'll be happy with.

Having a banjo burner instead of a standard turkey fryer will save you time every time you brew even an extract brew.

Having a large boil pot rather than 1 that will just barely do the job will allow you to relax a little while boiling. The vast majority of us have enough stress in our lives and this is a hobby so it should be fun and relaxing not stressful.

Here's my last piece of advice:

Buy cheap and buy twice.

Good luck

 

[Cheesefood]

Get a Banjo burner from Home Depot for $45, and look on Craigs List for some kegs @ <$20 each, then get some weldless fittings and a cooler.

 

[the_bird]

I had/have the electric fryer, it worked like crap. Could not get 5 gallons of wort to a strong boil without the lid on. Works great for heating strike and sparge water, but worthless for boiling wort. Go propane!

 

[fritz_monroe]

Good thread. I'll be going all grain also, and I'm trying to take my time with my setup. Keep the advise coming.

That Banjo cooker at Home Depot for $45, that's not the 10" burner, is it? I looked online and the 10" burner model is out of stock. It appears that they have stopped making that model. I've heard that the pressure on the replacement model will be lower. Any info on this?

They do have a couple Banjo models in stainless steel. I'll have to swing by and check them out.

 

[BierMuncher]

How many beers can you get out of a 50lbs sack say assuming OG's around 50 and 60?

You won't get any beer out of 50lbs if you haven't ordered it precrushed or own a miller.

Don't become one of those "D@mmit, I forgot to order my grain crushed..." posts.

7 1/2 gallon brew pot is big enough.
10 gallon minimum cooler (Rubbermaid, $39 at Home Depot)
You'll need an immersion wort chiller. Do it yourself version, less that $40.
This is essentially what I had as a 5-gallon setup. I've since replaced the cooler below with a 10-gallon and life is easier.

 

[HenryHill]

Get a Banjo burner from Home Depot for $45

CF, I have seen reference to a BB at HD for $45, but what I have found both in store and online is the square 14" (SQ14), not the KA version. (They also offer the SS square model 1114 for $64.) I thought that the KAB5 BB was a 30 lb. regulator, vs. 10psi for the standard 55,000-ish burner or 20psi for the 185,000-ish ones.

Is the burner unit the same in both model numbers but with different frames or are they entirely different offerings?

For reference:

http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Navigation?marketID=401&locStoreNum=8125&Ntk=AllProps&Ns=P_Topseller_Sort|1&N=10000003+90401+524283&rpp=12&langId=-1&storeId=10051&catalogId=10053&style=A

I had thought that swomewhere (Amazon?) was offering a KAB5 burner/stand only for 65-ish delivered; not sure if this is still the deal?

 

[HenryHill]

KAB5 Improved Version. Apparently they have revised the Unintended Leg Removal Feature of the early model, offer it with a SS hose and hose connection shield.

Maybe this is causing it to be temporarily unavailable at some places...?

http://bayouclassicdepot.com/kab5_kick_a_banjo_burner.htm

 

[l3lackEyedAngels]

I have an electric turkey fryer, the same one that you linked to. I can get 6 gallons of wort boiling with it. However, I find that walking away from it is risky business. The boil is much better with the lid on. The trouble is that with the lid on, a boil over is guaranteed. I've done two brews with it. Keeping the lid on and then lifting it up whenever it seems like a boil over is about to happen is the best way to go. Don't trust the digital thermometer built into the boiler. When I first tested it with water, it indicated 225F, but there was no boil at all. Since all that I am after is a boil, I just crank it up all the way. So, it's functionally fine for me. On the other hand, the kettle portion of the product is thin aluminum. I've dented it twice. And ever since I first tested it with water, the bottom has been dark. I can't scrub it away. I plan on contacting Masterbuilt and seeing if they will replace with a SS kettle.

 

[Sir Humpsalot]

I have an electric turkey fryer, the same one that you linked to. I can get 6 gallons of wort boiling with it. However, I find that walking away from it is risky business. The boil is much better with the lid on. The trouble is that with the lid on, a boil over is guaranteed. I've done two brews with it. Keeping the lid on and then lifting it up whenever it seems like a boil over is about to happen is the best way to go. Don't trust the digital thermometer built into the boiler. When I first tested it with water, it indicated 225F, but there was no boil at all. Since all that I am after is a boil, I just crank it up all the way. So, it's functionally fine for me. On the other hand, the kettle portion of the product is thin aluminum. I've dented it twice. And ever since I first tested it with water, the bottom has been dark. I can't scrub it away. I plan on contacting Masterbuilt and seeing if they will replace with a SS kettle.

That darkness is probably aluminum oxide. Leave it alone, don't try to scrub it away. It creates a protective surface so the aluminum doesn't leach into your wort. Ever used a cast iron skillet? Just because it looks gross and has never seen soap doesn't mean it's not perfectly ready to use.

 

[the_bird]

You cannot leave the lid on when you're boiling an AG wort (you shouldn't even with extract, but with AG it's a huge no-no). There are lots of volatile components that you want out of your beer than a boil will remove, DMS and others. If you leave the lid on, they just drip back into the wort. That's why the electric fryer's a nonstarter for me for boiling wort, but OK for heating water.

Gotta remember, it's easier to heat up oil than water. It's not really designed to heat up that much water.

 

[l3lackEyedAngels]

I had no idea. Maybe I can mod the thing with a second element so that I could have great boils w/o the lid.


[btw this forum is great]

 

[Buford]

I'd say get at least an 8 gallon pot if you're doing full boils. I do 5.5 gallon batches and had a boil over last time even with the 8 gallon pot I use.

 

[the_bird]

For a cooler, I can't speak highly enough about the Coleman Xtreme. I have the 36-quart model, which is plenty big for 5-gallon batches. It holds heat extremely well - at most, you lose a degree over an hour-long mash. It's rectangular, so it's really only good for batch sparging, but I'd recommend you batch sparge anyway. The spigot is easy to remove and is set down in a channel in the bottom of the cooler, so that there is essentially zero dead space in the cooler.

I swear to God, whatever designer made that cooler, I'm convinced that they are homebrewers. I bought mine for ~$30 or so, worth every penny. Hook it up with a bulkhead fitting, a ball value, and a SS braid, and you're good to go.

 

[z987k]

Thanks for all the replies. I'm going to go with the 60qt cooler I posted and a SS braid in the bottom of that. I already have an immersion chiller. As far as the turkey fryer, I guess the electric one is out, and I'm looking into the banjo burners. I don't need my water boiling in 5 mins flat but not too slow either, what's a good btu for 5 gal boils? I've found a few around 160,000 that are descent prices, the turkey fryers seem to be in the 50-60k range.

after looking up the definition and math behind a BTU, 44lbs of water (5.5gal) would take 6160 BTU's to heat that water from 72F to 212F in 1 hour. Seems like 50,000 should be more than enough. 37,000BTU's should heat it in 10mins. (all under ideal conditions of coarse). Or is my math wack?

Since you like wheats, I say pick up some pils for your 2-row, as the lightness of the malt helps the wheat shine through more. Most Hefe recipes I've seen call for Pils. What do they charge for Pils?

Pils is 47 something per 50lb sack... crushed.