God awful efficiency on first all grain brew

[car421]

So finished my first all grain yesterday and as I predicted I messed up a little. End result I have ~5 gallons of a Wheat beer in the carboy with active fermentation, but my efficiency was terrible.
The first mistake I made was putting all 4 gallons into my preheated Mash tun. After adding the grains my temp dropped to ~145. That surprised me as the water was at 170, but it was a bit cold outside and I had to use another pot to transfer the water. Had to add another gallon to bring temp up to 152 for a total of 5 gallons, 1 more than calculated.
Batch sparged with 4 gallons as I got 3.5 gallons from the mash and finished with 7.25 gallons which was my target. Tun held temp for the hour but missed my pre-boil target gravity by .011.
Boiled for 1 hr and had a gravity reading of 1.037 with a target of 1.050. 1.5 lbs of light DME helped me hit 1.054.

Looks like my efficiency was ~54%?

 

[dude3516]

Check your grain crush, also for mashing in I add hot water and my grain at the same time, with an assistant controlling the water hose and stirring vigorously. A full 25 degree tempt drop is really strange though. Normally between transfer time I get a drop of about 12 degrees. Otherwise I mash in 4 gallons, drain, then add another 4 at 170 degrees and let sit for 15 minutes before draining. Gets me 72% efficiency every time on my all grain batches.

 

[brewbama]

Sounds like you recovered well. You knew what to do and did it. Congrats!

IMO, Wheat is notorious for low efficiency in a 60 min mash. I like to let wheat go 90 min. Try a Barley based beer and see if your efficiency doesn't increase. As said above crush is a factor also.

 

[Auger]

When I first started all-grain brewing, I don't think I started looking at efficiency until 6 or 7 batches in. The first few were focused on hitting temps, taking notes and figuring out what I needed to do with my specific system to hit mash temps. The first few brews were a little wonky as far as numbers go, but the beer was still decent.

What was your preboil gravity?

 

[VladOfTrub]

It is all part of the learning curve. You probably did a lot better than most first timers, me included.
Instead of infusing water for temperature maintenance or for reaching saccharification temperature, remove a small portion of thick mash, boil it and use the boiling mash to change the temperature of the main mash. Ensure mash pH is below 5.8, before boiling the mash.
When wheat is used, it is not a bad idea to toss in a rest at a temperature in the proteolytic range. The enzymes will reduce beta glucan, converting it into glucose and there by reducing mash viscosity. Beta Glucanase does not survive the kilning process used to make modern malt. Proteolytic enzymes will do the job.

 

[brewbama]

It is all part of the learning curve. You probably did a lot better than most first timers, me included.
Instead of infusing water for temperature maintenance or for reaching saccharification temperature, remove a small portion of thick mash, boil it and use the boiling mash to change the temperature of the main mash. Ensure mash pH is below 5.8, before boiling the mash.
When wheat is used, it is not a bad idea to toss in a rest at a temperature in the proteolytic range. The enzymes will reduce beta glucan, converting it into glucose and there by reducing mash viscosity. Beta Glucanase does not survive the kilning process used to make modern malt. Proteolytic enzymes will do the job.

I was starting to type Decoction or mash infusion steps but as a first timer I didn't think I should go there. Good advice though - especially with wheat.

 

[RM-MN]

Sounds like you recovered well. You knew what to do and did it. Congrats!

IMO, Wheat is notorious for low efficiency in a 60 min mash. I like to let wheat go 90 min. Try a Barley based beer and see if your efficiency doesn't increase. As said above crush is a factor also.

Wheat is just as quick to convert as barley but the kernels are smaller and harder so most often they don't get properly crushed. Your 90 minute mash is a crutch to compensate for a poor crush job.

 

[car421]

I'll be doing my second all grain in a few weeks so hopefully it goes better. As a side note got wicked crazy fermentation 24 hours later and lost 1 gallon thru the blowoff tube, add in a gallon of true and I'm netting 3 gallons from this brew.

 

[kh54s10]

I'll be doing my second all grain in a few weeks so hopefully it goes better. As a side note got wicked crazy fermentation 24 hours later and lost 1 gallon thru the blowoff tube, add in a gallon of true and I'm netting 3 gallons from this brew.

Why are you losing so much beer. I lose a lot of foam in some blow offs but the beer level does not drop much. I would guess the worst I ever lost was 12 - 24 ounces. And I am doing 5 gallon batches in 6 gallon Better Bottles. I bag my hops so I only lose a bottle or two in the trub also.

 

[atoughram]

IMO, Wheat is notorious for low efficiency in a 60 min mash.

I'll try that too - I typically take 5 points away from my efficiency when doing a wheat beer... Ought to be a good experiment.

 

[jbob7171]

I'll be doing my second all grain in a few weeks so hopefully it goes better. As a side note got wicked crazy fermentation 24 hours later and lost 1 gallon thru the blowoff tube, add in a gallon of true and I'm netting 3 gallons from this brew.

Wow, that's a crazy amount to loss. I've heard one other person on this site mention they lost a lot and the cause was the blowoff tube was actually dipped into the beer causing a siphon effect. I obviously don't know how you have it set up, but just wanted to throw that out there.

 

[RM-MN]

I'll try that too - I typically take 5 points away from my efficiency when doing a wheat beer... Ought to be a good experiment.

Try 2 experiments, one where you use your normal crush on the wheat and a 90 minute mash and the second where you get the wheat milled finer and a 30 minute mash. If you get the wheat milled finer, I think you will get a better efficiency with the 30 minute mash.

 

[brewbama]

Wheat is just as quick to convert as barley but the kernels are smaller and harder so most often they don't get properly crushed. Your 90 minute mash is a crutch to compensate for a poor crush job.

I dunno. I crush pretty fine. I am traveling now so can't ck but if I remember what I set my JSP MM to a while back, I think I am at .025".

This is the basis for my statement:

"...fermentability still increases even after the wort itself is iodine negative. In addition to that longer mash times can also increase the conversion efficiency as they convert the harder to reach starch ..." (kai at braukaiser dot com)


...and this is my experience in application of that statement: Over several hundred gallons brewed, I've found a 90 min mash works best for beers with a large amount of wheat using my equipment.

 

[atoughram]

Try 2 experiments, one where you use your normal crush on the wheat and a 90 minute mash and the second where you get the wheat milled finer and a 30 minute mash. If you get the wheat milled finer, I think you will get a better efficiency with the 30 minute mash.

I'm a homegrinder....

So you're saying to grind only the wheat finer?

 

[Arrheinous]

Wow, that's a crazy amount to loss. I've heard one other person on this site mention they lost a lot and the cause was the blowoff tube was actually dipped into the beer causing a siphon effect. I obviously don't know how you have it set up, but just wanted to throw that out there.

Defoamer has worked pretty well for me with beers up to 11%. No loss to blow-off but it did go up into the airlock once or twice.

 

[RM-MN]

I'm a homegrinder....

So you're saying to grind only the wheat finer?

If you are getting the efficiency you want with just barley but the efficiency suffers when you add wheat then just mill the wheat finer. Wheat has smaller and harder kernels than barley and won't be milled correctly at the setting that you would normally use for barley.

With a very fine grind with my Corona mill I get full conversion in 20 minutes and the fermentability is better than I want. Many of my beers that are mashed at 155 to 158 will have an OG of 1.055 and an FG around 1.008. I'd like then to be not quite so fermentable.

 

[atoughram]

If you are getting the efficiency you want with just barley but the efficiency suffers when you add wheat then just mill the wheat finer. Wheat has smaller and harder kernels than barley and won't be milled correctly at the setting that you would normally use for barley.

With a very fine grind with my Corona mill I get full conversion in 20 minutes and the fermentability is better than I want. Many of my beers that are mashed at 155 to 158 will have an OG of 1.055 and an FG around 1.008. I'd like then to be not quite so fermentable.

I'll try it then! Thanks.

 

[car421]

I was surprised at the loss also. Blow off tube is only ~1 inch below the neck of the 6.5 gallon carboy. Started with exactly 5 gallons and now am barely above the 4 gallon mark. In 2+ years of brewing have never had fermentation this violent. The starsan bucket the blowoff tube goes into lookied like it was boiling at 68-70 degrees.

Definitely gonna try some Fermcap on the next brew.

 

[Brew_G]

Wheat is just as quick to convert as barley but the kernels are smaller and harder so most often they don't get properly crushed. Your 90 minute mash is a crutch to compensate for a poor crush job.

Slight bump to thank you for this post.

I brewed my seventh batch - and first ever wheat beer - yesterday (Oberon-inspired American wheat). Wheat was about 40% of my grist, and I blindly went into it and crushed the wheat with the same settings as I normally crush my barley. I really didn't think anything of it until my expected OG of 1.057 ended up at 1.051, for an efficiency of 67% vs. the expected 75%.

It wasn't until I threw the spent grains into my compost bin today (and picked through them) that I realized that quite of bit of the wheat was uncrushed or poorly crushed. So I naturally searched HBT for "wheat efficiency" and this thread came up.

Next time I use wheat, I'll either make a quick adjustment to my rollers or simply double or triple crush it. This beer should turn out just fine with the lower OG, but I'd rather not go into a brewday not having a good idea of what my numbers will eventually be!

 

[RM-MN]

Slight bump to thank you for this post.

I brewed my seventh batch - and first ever wheat beer - yesterday (Oberon-inspired American wheat). Wheat was about 40% of my grist, and I blindly went into it and crushed the wheat with the same settings as I normally crush my barley. I really didn't think anything of it until my expected OG of 1.057 ended up at 1.051, for an efficiency of 67% vs. the expected 75%.

It wasn't until I threw the spent grains into my compost bin today (and picked through them) that I realized that quite of bit of the wheat was uncrushed or poorly crushed. So I naturally searched HBT for "wheat efficiency" and this thread came up.

Next time I use wheat, I'll either make a quick adjustment to my rollers or simply double or triple crush it. This beer should turn out just fine with the lower OG, but I'd rather not go into a brewday not having a good idea of what my numbers will eventually be!

Getting the wheat crushed better should help the efficiency but it then brings a different kind of problem. Since wheat has no hull like barley does, getting it crushed better may lead to a stuck sparge unless you add something like rice hulls to replace those that are missing with wheat.

 

[Brew_G]

Getting the wheat crushed better should help the efficiency but it then brings a different kind of problem. Since wheat has no hull like barley does, getting it crushed better may lead to a stuck sparge unless you add something like rice hulls to replace those that are missing with wheat.

Good thing I do BIAB.

 

[frettfreak]

I'll be doing my second all grain in a few weeks so hopefully it goes better. As a side note got wicked crazy fermentation 24 hours later and lost 1 gallon thru the blowoff tube, add in a gallon of true and I'm netting 3 gallons from this brew.

I was surprised at the loss also. Blow off tube is only ~1 inch below the neck of the 6.5 gallon carboy. Started with exactly 5 gallons and now am barely above the 4 gallon mark. In 2+ years of brewing have never had fermentation this violent. The starsan bucket the blowoff tube goes into lookied like it was boiling at 68-70 degrees.

Definitely gonna try some Fermcap on the next brew.

Why is your blow off tube IN your fermenter? Go to home depot (or any home improvement store) and get a 3/8" barb (the brass ones that you will find with the other small plumbing fittings) and some 3/8ID hose. The barb is the right size for the stopper for the carboy and use the hose obviously for blow off tube. You should get a LOT less blow off.

Also, for those of use that dont have a mill at home and the LHBS grinds their grain, have them run it through twice. Helps a lot with efficiency in my experience. ALSO, to the OP, have you thought about getting something like beersmith? You will be able to plug in all your numbers and accurately predict pretty much everything. Its not perfect but for me personally, its indispensable.