getting into AG, have some questions about my water chemistry!

[nudarkshadowl]

So I decided on brewing the Inglewood IPA recipe from the Beersmith CCHBS AG add on for my first AG batch on my soon to be here Morebeer single tier digital sculpture and I wanted to run some things by more experienced AG brewers to make sure I am going about this in the correct way.

First off, when Ward tested my water profile it came back with the following results (I.E. Unbalanced, this was the second time they tested the water with similar results and they recommended we expand the cations tested to include NH4 or Al in order to see if it balances out.)

Please note, this was straight out of the tap, unfiltered water. I have since acquired a filtering system and plan to filter my brewing and sparge water though a 3 chamber filter directly off of my hose (RV hose line, not a garden hose) that includes a PH correction filter, a Chloramine & Hydrogen Sulfide Removal Filter, and your basic active carbon block filter. After looking into the PH correction filter, it would seem that it neutralizes acid and with my PH being base/high at 7.9, it probably wont do anything but I got the filtration system for free so I guess it doesn't matter, lol.

Heres my report:

pH 7.9

Total Dissolved Solids (TDS) Est, ppm 546

Electrical Conductivity, mmho/cm 0.91

Cations / Anions, me/L 9.4 / 10.0

ppm

Sodium, Na 90

Potassium, K 5

Calcium, Ca 67

Magnesium, Mg 24

Total Hardness, CaCO3 268

Nitrate, NO3-N 0.2 (SAFE)

Sulfate, SO4-S 73 (219ppm)

Chloride, Cl 84

Carbonate, CO3 < 1.0

Bicarbonate, HCO3 187

Total Alkalinity, CaCO3 154

Total Phosphorus, P 0.02

Total Iron, Fe < 0.01

Everything seems to be in an OK range according to EZ-Water and other articles aside from the Alkalinity/Bicarbonate being high, thus giving the 7.9 PH value. I have some permanent hardness in the water as well. I plan to bring my sparge and mash water down to 5.5 PH for this recipe and was thinking I could get there with 7ml of Lactic Acid. I have been reading Palmers Water book, and blew through about half of it today, so I'm at least learning some stuff lol.

According to EZ water, this would be bring my profile for the IPA to the following:

(Ca ppm) 67 (Mg ppm)24 (Na ppm)90 (Cl ppm)84 (SO4 ppm)219 Ratio0.38 PH5.5

When I entered in my equipment profile in Beersmith, I accounted for a 2.5 gallon deadspace volume in the MT due to the false bottom. BS game me a total water volume needed of 17.62 Gal (9.32 for the mash, and 8.30 for the sparge). See below for the recipe profile:



Sorry for the long winded post, but I'm just trying to make sure my figures are where they need to be. The recipe calls for 37.27 qu at 161.6 degrees for my HLT, which after doughing in will hopefully stabilize at 152 degrees for the 75 min recirc. mash, then I'll sparge the 8.30 gal at 168 degrees hopefully over a 45 min period if i'm able to figure out the flow rate balancing for the pumps.

I am probably waaaayyy over thinking this and making it more complicated that it needs to be, but I have been reading a lot on all this stuff and there is just so much information out there that I am trying to absorb as much as I can.

My biggest concern is getting my Mash/sparge PH levels to be where they need to be, while also removing any chlorine/chloramine from the water. Basically I just want to make sure my water profile is on point for my first AG run.

After reading Palmers book, I'm thinking that I should go about reducing my alkalinity in another way. Maybe with acid malt and calcium salts instead of just the lactic acid. I'm trying get good enough to just use my tap water for everything without having to cut my water with ro or distilled water. Are my sulfates too high for this style? Also, a PH meter is on the way, a Milwaukee pH Meter w/ATC from morebeer along with the storage and calibration solutions.

Cheers! And thanks again for all of the help/advice so far!

 

[ajdelange]

First off, when Ward tested my water profile it came back with the following results (I.E. Unbalanced, this was the second time they tested the water with similar results and they recommended we expand the cations tested to include NH4 or Al in order to see if it balances out.)

The difference between cations and anions is the sum of any unmeasured cations, errors made in the cations measured and errors made in the anions measured. There are going to be some errors in any report. Ward Labs, for example, was not calculating carbonate and bicarbonate correctly but is now apparently doing so as the bicarbonate number in your reports gels with the reported alkalinity (to within a fraction of a mg/L). Assuming all ions measured were measured exactly then your imbalance is from unmeasured cations such as iron, copper, aluminum, strontium, ammonium, zinc.... Iron and aluminum are dosed into water at treatment plants to clarify it but the dose is at a level that is insufficient to explain the magniutude of the error you have. I think the SMCL for aluminum is 0.2 mg/L and it would take about 6 mg/L to explain your imbalance. It would take 21 mg/L ammonium to do it or 19 mg/L zinc (almost 4 times the SMCL). You might wind up spending a lot of money chasing after the source of this imbalance which may not be caused by missing ions at all though the fact that you got the same result back from Wards twice does suggest that it is some other cation or cations. The fact that all the suspect ions only have secondary MCLs (SMCLs) suggests that there are no health risks but that the water may be un pleasing aesthetically if an SMCL is exceeded. Any funny tastes or smells?

After looking into the PH correction filter, it would seem that it neutralizes acid and with my PH being base/high at 7.9, it probably wont do anything but I got the filtration system for free so I guess it doesn't matter, lol.

It's probably just some ground up dolomitic limestone.

Everything seems to be in an OK range according to EZ-Water and other articles aside from the Alkalinity/Bicarbonate being high, thus giving the 7.9 PH value.

Alkalinity is high-ish but not high (and note that I see almost that level in my well even though the pH is less than 7 IOW pH doesn't predict alkalinity nor conversely though there is, of course, a relationship).

Sodium is high also.

I have some permanent hardness in the water as well.

Quite a lot, in fact. You are pretty much limited to a certain subset of the ales with sulfate that high. This can be a problem for you if you wish to do styles where the hops are more subtle such as the delicate continental lagers.

I plan to bring my sparge and mash water down to 5.5 PH for this recipe and was thinking I could get there with 7ml of Lactic Acid.

It should only take 4.5 mL of 88% lactic acid to get 5 gal of this water to pH 5.5. Or you could use 45 mL of 10% phosphoric (less flavor).

According to EZ water, this would be bring my profile for the IPA to the following:
(Ca ppm) 67 (Mg ppm)24 (Na ppm)90 (Cl ppm)84 (SO4 ppm)219 Ratio0.38 PH5.5

As you have added nothing but acid nothing but the pH and the concentration of the acid'd anions (lactate, phosphat...) should change.

My biggest concern is getting my Mash/sparge PH levels to be where they need to be, while also removing any chlorine/chloramine from the water.

That's trivially handled by adding a campden tablet. See:
https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/campden-tablets-sulfites-brewing-water-361073/

After[/url] reading Palmers book, I'm thinking that I should go about reducing my alkalinity in another way. Maybe with acid malt and calcium salts instead of just the lactic acid.

Using sauermalz is just adding lactic acid in a different form and it takes longer to react but it does improve flavor subtly.

You should be able to drop a fair amount of alkalinity just by heating this water. This will also drop calcium so be sure to add a calcium supplement if you do take this route and do it before heating. That helps you get more bicarb out.

Are my sulfates too high for this style?

Some would say so. Others would say you need more. That depends on your palate.

Also, a PH meter is on the way, a Milwaukee pH Meter w/ATC from morebeer along with the storage and calibration solutions.

That will turn out to be one of the best brewing investments you ever made. Check https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f128/ph-meter-calibration-302256/ for some tips.

 

[nudarkshadowl]

Aj,

Thank you very much for the informative post! Regarding the hardness in the water and high sulfate levels, would it be best to just cut the water with a 1:1 ratio of ro water? Or am I'm just complicating things by trying to modify my own tap water. I'm half way considering investing in an ro system so I can start with a clean slate and build my water from scratch, but those units with a big enough tank are quite expensive lol.

As always Aj, you are an extremely valuable asset to this website and the brewing community as a whole. Cheers!

 

[ajdelange]

There is little doubt that RO simplifies things, maximizes flexibility and removes the effects of seasonal or other variations in source water composition but you must, of course, shell out for a system or travel to obtain the RO water from another source.

You don't need a big pressure tank. In fact if you eliminate the pressure tank you will get greater flow from an RO system. What you do need is a vessel (or vessels) sufficient to hold all the water you will need for a brew day.

 

[nudarkshadowl]

Aj,

I decided the best route to go with would be to just shell out a little extra and get an RO system. That way I'll be able to brew whatever style I need and can modify my water profile accordingly. Any recommendations on a storage vessel for the brewday RO water? Thank you for the input and advice!

 

[ajdelange]

Anything suitable for water IOW your HLT, mashtun and kettle will do for storage for a few days but you will need to be able to empty all of those out on brew day obviously. One can obtain barrels for storage of rain water (plastic but clearly free of BPA and stuff like that) and that would probably be the most handy as they'll easily hold a whole brew days worth.