Getting hops out of wort and beer

[KLITE]

Hi all

Ive just done my first attempt at a new england. I added 250g of pellet hops at flameout. Needless to say it became like a soup, the hops never really percipitated and i regret not having used a muslin bag. That said its not even been dry hopped and it already stank!!! like simcoe and citra in a bag. I had to use a sanitized metal strainer and took me half an hour to strain and rack to primary, lost a good 2/3l of wort too.

Now i want to dry hop with 500g total divided in halves, one at the end of primary and another once fg has been reached. How safe am i in assuming the hops will precipitate in max 48h and i can confortably siphon the dry hopped beer? I know its a lot of hops...

I do not want to use a muslin bag for this step, let me know how you would do it or from your knowledge what will happen when half a pound of hops are added in dry hopping.

thanks

ps> ive previously only used muslin bag for dry hopping, but after extensive research i feel i woud get more into the wort by letting the hops go all loosey goosey.

 

[flars]

When I want to remove hops from the boiled wort I pour into the fermentor through a separate bucket holding a fine mesh bag. I don't think your dry hop pellets will drop in 48 hours. You may have to try to rack the beer from below. I have used a catch bag on the end of the siphon but this was to avoid picking up hop debris after a 7 day dry hop.

 

[KLITE]

When I want to remove hops from the boiled wort I pour into the fermentor through a separate bucket holding a fine mesh bag. I don't think your dry hop pellets will drop in 48 hours. You may have to try to rack the beer from below. I have used a catch bag on the end of the siphon but this was to avoid picking up hop debris after a 7 day dry hop.

Thanks for your input and visual support.

I have got a 220 micron mesh bag i suppose i could put at the end of the hose when siphoning. thamn now that i think about it its fairly big (about 20l volume) i could have just put the hops in there at flameout theyd still have enough space to maximize surface area contact.

Is 220 micro too small? would i filter so to say some desirable particles?

 

[pepindavid]

I think you are overcomplicating things... No big deal on having hop debris going in the fermenter. And any dry hop will drop to the bottom with cold crash (use a swamp cooler if your fermentation setup doesn't allow for cold crashing). Dry hop 24-36 hours, then cold crash.

As for the flameout hops : whirlpool if you can, strain if you really have to, but don't sweat if there are some hop material that goes in.

 

[ancientmariner52]

I use a big kitchen strainer to dip out as much junk as I can. Just bang it on a tree stump to clear and dip again. The wort is still over 200°F, so no worries. When I get tired/bored of that, I whirlpool with a big spoon and let it settle for a half hour or so while I hook up the cfc, garden hose, ice chest and pump, and such.

Between dipping, whirlpooling, and a screen covered drain manifold around the bottom of the pot, I reckon I'm getting rid of 80% of the solids without losing any liquid to speak of.

 

[KLITE]

Thanks for all the input.

I think im just gonna get a huge ass mesh bag and do it all in there from now on.
I shall post a pic when it comes out of a bottle of this one anyways, first time adding this much hops. After speaking with friends who own a brewery here in spain how much hops i was using they literally laughed at me, so i suppose thats a good sign. hehe Only recently breweries have started doing things right but still afraid to abuse the hops. Im hoping in a few more brews i can show em something that knocks their socks off.

thanks all

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

I just dump the hops in the kettle at FO and WP. I do whirlpool which concentrates a lot of the hops in the middle of the kettle, but I make zero attempt beyond that to keep them out of the ferm. In fact, I'm a firm believer that you want some of those late addition hops to make it into the fermenter for biotransformation during the early portion of the fermentation process.

With dry hop additions, again, I just dump 'em in. What I've found is that the vast majority drop out during cold crash. What does make it into the keg serves as a keg dry hop. They collect at the bottom and you get some out with the first few glasses. After that, you're good to go.

In general, for NEIPAs, you want to really expedite things. If I brew on Saturday, I've dry hopped and cold crashed for several days by the next friday or saturday and keg no later than day 8. The beer really starts firing on all cylinders about 8-10 days after kegging, and they come out juicy and full of hop flavor and aroma.

If there's one thing I've learned about brewing, it's to not worry if the beer looks/tastes nasty during the brewing process. It's the final product that counts. NEIPAs are going to be hop soup for most of the process.

 

[KLITE]

I just dump the hops in the kettle at FO and WP. I do whirlpool which concentrates a lot of the hops in the middle of the kettle, but I make zero attempt beyond that to keep them out of the ferm. In fact, I'm a firm believer that you want some of those late addition hops to make it into the fermenter for biotransformation during the early portion of the fermentation process.

With dry hop additions, again, I just dump 'em in. What I've found is that the vast majority drop out during cold crash. What does make it into the keg serves as a keg dry hop. They collect at the bottom and you get some out with the first few glasses. After that, you're good to go.

In general, for NEIPAs, you want to really expedite things. If I brew on Saturday, I've dry hopped and cold crashed for several days by the next friday or saturday and keg no later than day 8. The beer really starts firing on all cylinders about 8-10 days after kegging, and they come out juicy and full of hop flavor and aroma.

If there's one thing I've learned about brewing, it's to not worry if the beer looks/tastes nasty during the brewing process. It's the final product that counts. NEIPAs are going to be hop soup for most of the process.

Thamn thats a very! quick fermentation! What yeast are you using and what temperature? I suppose higher temp will accelerate the yeast's metabolism.
Im sure if i bottle it that quick i will have some explosions.

What you say about bio transformation is true also yeast will produce an enzyme called beta glucasane (if im not mistaken) which breaks apart terpene bound glucosides, hence getting another layer out of the hops. I didnt filter it to perfection so some hops made it in the fermenter, but i will keep it in mind. Good advice.

Im definetly never going back to using a few ounces to make an ipa, one pound minimum! I wish you could smell the room where its fermenting, cant wait to dry hop her.

 

[xpops]

look at getting a hopspider. recently picked one up and have been using it the last few batches. very nice clean beer going into the fermenter! as for dry hopping, i also just toss the pellets in for 4-5 days and then cold crash and rack over to keg.

 

[ancientmariner52]

Just picked one up, haven't used it yet. I'm thinking that if I recirc hot wort through my cfc to sterilize it, I can return it to the hop spider. When it clogs, I'll dump the junk out and keep going. Maybe eliminate the manual skimming I've been doing.

 

[KLITE]

look at getting a hopspider. recently picked one up and have been using it the last few batches. very nice clean beer going into the fermenter! as for dry hopping, i also just toss the pellets in for 4-5 days and then cold crash and rack over to keg.

One of those contraption would work if i think youre using ''reasonable'' amounts of hops say 4 or 5 ounces. But when you double that in a 5 gallon batch i swear to god it became like a slurry and quickly nearly plug such a contraption. After adding pellets unbound to any constricting device for the first time and over 9 ounces at once ive never had a wort stink like this nor taste this juicy before. Lets hope i manage to get around 8% abv so theres a lot of solvent for the hops to saturate. Going with 1 bit over a pound of dry hopping at the very end of fermentation

 

[xpops]

2 hop spiders? Lol

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Thamn thats a very! quick fermentation! What yeast are you using and what temperature? I suppose higher temp will accelerate the yeast's metabolism.
Im sure if i bottle it that quick i will have some explosions.

What you say about bio transformation is true also yeast will produce an enzyme called beta glucasane (if im not mistaken) which breaks apart terpene bound glucosides, hence getting another layer out of the hops. I didnt filter it to perfection so some hops made it in the fermenter, but i will keep it in mind. Good advice.

Im definetly never going back to using a few ounces to make an ipa, one pound minimum! I wish you could smell the room where its fermenting, cant wait to dry hop her.

View attachment 547504

I use 1318 with a 1.5 liter starter. Ferment at 65. It's at FG in less that 48 hours. I dry hop at 20-24 hours and start raising the temp then.

 

[throwoneback]

Hi all

Ive just done my first attempt at a new england. I added 250g of pellet hops at flameout. Needless to say it became like a soup, the hops never really percipitated and i regret not having used a muslin bag. That said its not even been dry hopped and it already stank!!! like simcoe and citra in a bag. I had to use a sanitized metal strainer and took me half an hour to strain and rack to primary, lost a good 2/3l of wort too.

Now i want to dry hop with 500g total divided in halves, one at the end of primary and another once fg has been reached. How safe am i in assuming the hops will precipitate in max 48h and i can confortably siphon the dry hopped beer? I know its a lot of hops...

I do not want to use a muslin bag for this step, let me know how you would do it or from your knowledge what will happen when half a pound of hops are added in dry hopping.

thanks

ps> ive previously only used muslin bag for dry hopping, but after extensive research i feel i woud get more into the wort by letting the hops go all loosey goosey.

I find that straining hops in boil and flameout reduces this situation dramatically. I wouldn’t strain dryhop. You can always use oils reduced by co2. Eliminating all or some of your dry hopping solids.

 

[fragged]

I just dump the hops in the kettle at FO and WP. I do whirlpool which concentrates a lot of the hops in the middle of the kettle, but I make zero attempt beyond that to keep them out of the ferm. In fact, I'm a firm believer that you want some of those late addition hops to make it into the fermenter for biotransformation during the early portion of the fermentation process.

With dry hop additions, again, I just dump 'em in. What I've found is that the vast majority drop out during cold crash. What does make it into the keg serves as a keg dry hop. They collect at the bottom and you get some out with the first few glasses. After that, you're good to go.

In general, for NEIPAs, you want to really expedite things. If I brew on Saturday, I've dry hopped and cold crashed for several days by the next friday or saturday and keg no later than day 8. The beer really starts firing on all cylinders about 8-10 days after kegging, and they come out juicy and full of hop flavor and aroma.

If there's one thing I've learned about brewing, it's to not worry if the beer looks/tastes nasty during the brewing process. It's the final product that counts. NEIPAs are going to be hop soup for most of the process.

Second this. Im a whirlpool the dont care about what makes it into the feementor guy too. Couple days from my first NEIPA (two weeks after drinking my first one, soooo hooked). With that style you actually want the hold to stick around a little.

In the past I've used a paint strainer bag in the fermenter as I fill it, if you really want to control it. I did it more for cold break before I started using whirlpool, but it caught hops too.

 

[KLITE]

I use 1318 with a 1.5 liter starter. Ferment at 65. It's at FG in less that 48 hours. I dry hop at 20-24 hours and start raising the temp then.

Thats pretty much what i did, og was 1078 and at 1032 (a bit past midway point) i dry hopped with about 7 ounces and let it rip to 22C in order to hopefully get a higher ester production (and zero fusels lol) as well as glycerol for that sweet and juicy mouthfeel After 5 days im cold crashing it for the second dry hop, which i will do cold (eventhough hydrocarbons have a higher solubility at higher temps) in order to avoid accelerating oxidation through higher temperatures. Im hoping to have left the gravity just a tad above fg so that in bottle conditioning the yeast will ultilize whatever oxygen is left, fingers crossed.

All in all Im very happy with the London ESB! Though the very best neipa ive tried were doppelganger and julius from treehouse and they had a slight almost vanillaish bubblegum esteryness to em and the mouthfeel was almost hefe, and i think us hop heads are perhaps focusing too much on the hops and not as much on compounds that can help bring that hopiness about.
Im thinking of using to some rate or experiment with ratios with pitching bavarian yeast perhaps as i dry hop and raise temperature in order to maximize ester production from the bavarian since at lower temps the rate of ester production is far lower and the esb is going absolutely nuts, perhaps also keep em at 7 abv max or thereabouts in order to not promote too much stress on the yeast as i doubt bavarian strains hande a lot of alcohol well. Moreover its flocculation is low and bavarian yeasts have a very round and full mouthfeel. One could even perhaps not use oats at all to achieve the same mouthfeel and cloudiness and create a better equilibrium between hops malt and esters by reducing the oiliness i suppose.
Maybe im crazy thinking that way but after brewing this im definetly thinking that esters are much more important in hoppy beer styles than i previously thought.

 

[KLITE]

2 hop spiders? Lol

More like 4 mate! hahah silly me

 

[Hwk-I-St8]

Thats pretty much what i did, og was 1078 and at 1032 (a bit past midway point) i dry hopped with about 7 ounces and let it rip to 22C in order to hopefully get a higher ester production (and zero fusels lol) as well as glycerol for that sweet and juicy mouthfeel After 5 days im cold crashing it for the second dry hop, which i will do cold (eventhough hydrocarbons have a higher solubility at higher temps) in order to avoid accelerating oxidation through higher temperatures. Im hoping to have left the gravity just a tad above fg so that in bottle conditioning the yeast will ultilize whatever oxygen is left, fingers crossed.

All in all Im very happy with the London ESB! Though the very best neipa ive tried were doppelganger and julius from treehouse and they had a slight almost vanillaish bubblegum esteryness to em and the mouthfeel was almost hefe, and i think us hop heads are perhaps focusing too much on the hops and not as much on compounds that can help bring that hopiness about.
Im thinking of using to some rate or experiment with ratios with pitching bavarian yeast perhaps as i dry hop and raise temperature in order to maximize ester production from the bavarian since at lower temps the rate of ester production is far lower and the esb is going absolutely nuts, perhaps also keep em at 7 abv max or thereabouts in order to not promote too much stress on the yeast as i doubt bavarian strains hande a lot of alcohol well. Moreover its flocculation is low and bavarian yeasts have a very round and full mouthfeel. One could even perhaps not use oats at all to achieve the same mouthfeel and cloudiness and create a better equilibrium between hops malt and esters by reducing the oiliness i suppose.
Maybe im crazy thinking that way but after brewing this im definetly thinking that esters are much more important in hoppy beer styles than i previously thought.

The early NEIPAs I did had flaked oats and flaked wheat. The latest version has some white wheat and golden naked oats....zero flaked. It's really juicy and has a nice hazy but not murky look and it has a thick frothy head. It reminds me of the Trillium beers I've had.

 

[Mothman]

In the past I've used a paint strainer bag in the fermenter as I fill it, if you really want to control it. I did it more for cold break before I started using whirlpool, but it caught hops too.

I've only tried this once... pouring from kettle to primary, with a grain bag in the primary to catch the goop.... the bag very quickly clogged up with hop debris, preventing any more wort from pouring through. I had to stop my pour, lift the bag, attempt to let it drain (it didn't), then do the best I could to sanitize my hands and squeeze this big balloon-esque grain bag full of wort, to get it through into the bucket.

I poured the rest of the wort directly, without the bag in place.

Any tips to avoid that in a future brew? Maybe my gain bag was too fine of a mesh?

 

[fragged]

I used a paint strainer bag as far as mesh goes. Mine clogged up too, but I found that just pulling one side of the bag up helped. Basically, your looking to expose a "fresh" area of bag. I did this into a 6.5 gallon bucket fermenter, but assume I could do the same for my big mouth bubblers. Even then I found that at the end, I'd wind up with a clogged bag, full of wort at that point. Lifting the bag up and just "massaging" the outside helped for me.

With all that said it doesn't work that great. Why my initial reply contains the phrase "If you really want...". I don't do this any more. Whirlpool and cold crash get the job done for me. I'll report back after doing this NEIPA later this week, but I've used 6 oz in the boil on previous recipies.

I've only tried this once... pouring from kettle to primary, with a grain bag in the primary to catch the goop.... the bag very quickly clogged up with hop debris, preventing any more wort from pouring through. I had to stop my pour, lift the bag, attempt to let it drain (it didn't), then do the best I could to sanitize my hands and squeeze this big balloon-esque grain bag full of wort, to get it through into the bucket.

I poured the rest of the wort directly, without the bag in place.

Any tips to avoid that in a future brew? Maybe my gain bag was too fine of a mesh?

 

[GnenieGone]

I've tried these hop spiders but they clog up with hops and protiens. So constantly have to clean and resantize. The best method I know of is to brew about 2 gallons more then needed and use Whirlflocc, which is a NEIPA no-no. After cooling there is usually a large ball of material. Rack out without disturbing. Your NEIPA challenges have just begun. Do you have a plan for not exposing the finished beer to oxygen?