Getting back to basics: MO/Mosaic SMaSH help!

[bransona]

Hey, HBT! I've brewed a lot (I mean A LOT) of crappy beer. Imperial this, sour that, all horrible. After a year away from brewing, I've decided to come back to the basics and really learn to brew. I'm eliminating a ton of variables with a lot of new gear (and by simplifying my recipes dramatically), and would like to master a SMaSH before I go back to making horrible beer

I need help designing a SMaSH and relearning my brew process. A basic idea is:

2.5gal BIAB AG MO/Mosaic SMaSH
~1.055 OG (not sure of efficiency since it's a new system), ~1.01 FG
???? IBU (need help here)
~5.5-6% abv

5lb MO

Mash 60 min ~152 w/ 1.5L/lb
(I can't remember how I had to mash out with BIAB)

Boil 60 min

NO IDEA FOR HOP ADDITIONS---I'm getting a pound of Mosaic and enough grain for 4 batches, so at most I would like to spare 4oz/batch. No idea if that's too much/little.

Ferment with US-05 (just because it's dry and cheap, but I'm open to other yeast; looking for moderate malt and hop character without too much yeast flavor). Don't know my temps in my new house, but I have a closet in mind that will likely be a stable 68*F, which I *think* is warm enough for US05 to not throw any weird peach flavors. If chico or some other clean workhorse would be better, I can always buy it once and harvest for a few generations.

Then I'll keg for the first time ever, which will surely be a new adventure (what PSI for a SMaSH?)

So I need to fill in all those gaps, and I need to figure out new water amounts and temps for various stages. Is there an especially good BIAB calculator? I use Brewer'sFriend, but it always seems way off on the IBU for small batches. Other than that I'm basically just using HowToBrew.

My water chemistry is fine according to other local brewers, but I'll need to get my pH in order eventually. Is that something I should worry about now or later?

Sorry for the rambling. I'm full of questions and am terribly anxious to get back to brewing. Thank you in advance for any and all help!

 

[unviewtiful]

Well first things first: SMaSH is not a style of beer. It's a method of simplified brewing, but can be used to make many different styles of beer (pilsner, blonde, APA, IPA, saison, bitter, barleywine, etc.). So you have to decide what style of beer you want to make. Based on the ingredients it looks like an APA or IPA is what you're shooting for, especially with 4 oz of Mosaic for a 2.5 gallon batch. Without running any numbers through a recipe calculator I'd guess you're looking at the ballpark of:
.25 oz Mosaic @ 60 min
.75 oz Mosaic @ 5 min (could move this one to 10 or 15 depending on desired IBUs)
1.5 oz Mosaic @ 0 min
1.5 oz Mosaic @ dry hop

I make something similar to that with US-05 and it always turns out great.

Carbonation is dependent on temperature and pressure, so be sure to reference a carbonation table.

I don't do BIAB or small batch, so I can't help much there. But Brewer's Friend and Beersmith work well for me.

Without any darker malts, you'll almost definitely need to acidify your mash. I think the water chemistry primer suggests starting with 2% acid malt and adjusting from there. If you start making these adjustments though, you'll want to make sure you use a tool like Bru'n Water and check the actuals with a pH meter. For this you'll need to know the mineral profile of the water you're starting with and make the appropriate mineral adjustments.

 

[bransona]

Thank you! Sorry, I forgot to specify a SMaSH IPA was the basic goal, but without having to dump too many hops into it. I have some acidulated malt I'll use to try to ballpark the pH alongside some test strips. Can't afford a real pH meter. I've used Brewer'sFriend to date, so I guess I'll stick with that for a calculator.

 

[MaxStout]

If you have a pound of Mosaic to use in four 2.5 gal batches, why not brew 4 SMaSH brews with those, using different base malts. Use the same yeast each time to rule out one more variable. Then you could do your batch with MO, then maybe one with 2-row, one with Vienna, etc. I think it would be cool to have four IPAs to try side-by-side. Find the one you like most, then build on that for the next time.

 

[bransona]

If you have a pound of Mosaic to use in four 2.5 gal batches, why not brew 4 SMaSH brews with those, using different base malts. Use the same yeast each time to rule out one more variable. Then you could do your batch with MO, then maybe one with 2-row, one with Vienna, etc. I think it would be cool to have four IPAs to try side-by-side. Find the one you like most, then build on that for the next time.

That's a really clever idea! BUT, it would drive the price way up. Also, I've done 2-row SMaSH (with equinox, which was kinda cool), and that malt just falls flat for me. I'm also not very fond of vienna malt by itself. Golden Promise was my only other option, but I've noticed I really enjoy beers brewed with MO from lots of breweries. I'm hoping to go through these first 4 batches and get my temperatures, boil-off, ferment temps, etc. down pat, then I'll start branching out if it's going well.

 

[MaxStout]

I loves me some Golden Promise. I've always thought of it as being close to MO, though I've never done a side-by-side comparison. Do SMaSH brews with those two and see how they compare.

BTW, I recall a thread where someone did a bunch of test SMaSH brews using different base malts. I found it here.

 

[MSK_Chess]

I think there is a lot that can be done to make improvements, I too made gallons of mediocre beer and occasionally still do. Attention to detail improved my beer no end. I will list some of the things that made a difference for me personally, perhaps they will for you too. Recipes are rarely if ever the root of problems unless of course they are unbalanced.

1. Pre boil your water, reduces oxygen, can precipitate out carbonates that you might not want, gets rid of chlorine.
2. Try a liquid yeast and make a yeast starter. I never really liked any of the beers I made with dry yeast.
3. Oxygenate your wort, shaking, air-stone, pure oxygen gas, whatever it takes to get oxygen into your boiled wort.
4. Ferment in a temperature controlled environment. Old fridge with a temp controller, anything.
5. Take notes and brew the same recipe again trying to discern where you would make improvements, tweak it until you like it.

As for recipes I found that imagining the beer we would like to make in our mind really helps. I seriously don't like big IPA's, they way too bitter for me, but I do like hops, especially mosaic, so I imagined a golden ale with fruit flavours of tangerine and tropical fruits, malty and hoppy at the same time, I just made sure that the IBU's were not killing it for me by using a small amount for bittering and larger late editions for flavour and aroma, worked pretty well.

 

[bransona]

I think there is a lot that can be done to make improvements, I too made gallons of mediocre beer and occasionally still do. Attention to detail improved my beer no end. I will list some of the things that made a difference for me personally, perhaps they will for you too. Recipes are rarely if ever the root of problems unless of course they are unbalanced.

1. Pre boil your water, reduces oxygen, can precipitate out carbonates that you might not want, gets rid of chlorine.
2. Try a liquid yeast and make a yeast starter. I never really liked any of the beers I made with dry yeast.
3. Oxygenate your wort, shaking, air-stone, pure oxygen gas, whatever it takes to get oxygen into your boiled wort.
4. Ferment in a temperature controlled environment. Old fridge with a temp controller, anything.
5. Take notes and brew the same recipe again trying to discern where you would make improvements, tweak it until you like it.

As for recipes I found that imagining the beer we would like to make in our mind really helps. I seriously don't like big IPA's, they way too bitter for me, but I do like hops, especially mosaic, so I imagined a golden ale with fruit flavours of tangerine and tropical fruits, malty and hoppy at the same time, I just made sure that the IBU's were not killing it for me by using a small amount for bittering and larger late editions for flavour and aroma, worked pretty well.

Lots of great advice---thank you! I remember pre-boiling my water before but can't at all remember the benefit of doing so. I've used liquid yeast with the same level of success as dry, but I still may get a new liquid yeast because I've never been too fond of US-05 (other than for its price). I always shake my wort to oxygenate, and was taking great notes on every brew but somehow managed to lose ALL OF THEM.

 

[bransona]

I think there is a lot that can be done to make improvements, I too made gallons of mediocre beer and occasionally still do. Attention to detail improved my beer no end. I will list some of the things that made a difference for me personally, perhaps they will for you too. Recipes are rarely if ever the root of problems unless of course they are unbalanced.

1. Pre boil your water, reduces oxygen, can precipitate out carbonates that you might not want, gets rid of chlorine.
2. Try a liquid yeast and make a yeast starter. I never really liked any of the beers I made with dry yeast.
3. Oxygenate your wort, shaking, air-stone, pure oxygen gas, whatever it takes to get oxygen into your boiled wort.
4. Ferment in a temperature controlled environment. Old fridge with a temp controller, anything.
5. Take notes and brew the same recipe again trying to discern where you would make improvements, tweak it until you like it.

As for recipes I found that imagining the beer we would like to make in our mind really helps. I seriously don't like big IPA's, they way too bitter for me, but I do like hops, especially mosaic, so I imagined a golden ale with fruit flavours of tangerine and tropical fruits, malty and hoppy at the same time, I just made sure that the IBU's were not killing it for me by using a small amount for bittering and larger late editions for flavour and aroma, worked pretty well.

Oh, and I don't have room/money for a temp controller. Gonna look at a closet in the center of the house and possibly the attic. Any suggestions there? Swamp cooler if necessary?

 

[MSK_Chess]

Oh, and I don't have room/money for a temp controller. Gonna look at a closet in the center of the house and possibly the attic. Any suggestions there? Swamp cooler if necessary?

Yes I used to use a closet too, was pretty good, anywhere where the temp is constant at around 18C/64F I have done a Mosiac Smash numerous times, i really love that beer, was an American Pale ale style though, not an IPA, used English yeast, WLP002 for a very slight residual sweetness from the malt, complimented the gorgeous American hops well. Was only about 30-35 IBU's but super fruity, tangerine and mango.

 

[bransona]

Yes I used to use a closet too, was pretty good, anywhere where the temp is constant at around 18C/64F I have done a Mosiac Smash numerous times, i really love that beer, was an American Pale ale style though, not an IPA, used English yeast, WLP002 for a very slight residual sweetness from the malt, complimented the gorgeous American hops well. Was only about 30-35 IBU's but super fruity, tangerine and mango.

I'm considering sticking more to APA, maybe 40-45 IBU, but with gratuitous late and dry hop additions. I normally don't care for English esters, but I'm down for anything that leaves me with the fruity mosaic and enough malt character to start understanding the flavor of MO. No idea what yeast that should lead me to

 

[MSK_Chess]

here was my recipe, i would gladly recommend it to anyone, brewed it numerous times and loved it. If you like a clean flavor I think the Californian ale yeast is fine, i just found it pretty bland, WLP007, Dry English has less esters than other English yeasts, I like it, its pretty tasty, anyway everyone's taste differs

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/mosiac-session-ipa.628701/

 

[BongoYodeler]

Along the same lines I plan on brewing a golden promise/amarillo SMaSH IPA around Christmas. I know the OP is using mosaic, which I really like but I have had a lot of mosaic-hopped beers. I can't remember drinking an amarillo featured beer, so I want to give it a go.

 

[VTX1300]

My house ale is a MO/Mosaic SMaSH. Absolutely love it. I use all distilled water because my tap is just nasty and adjust using the E Z water Calculator to produce a balanced profile. I use hops as follows for a 5gal batch so you just have to adjust to your batch size. 0.5 oz. @ FWH, 0.5 oz. @ 60 minute, 1oz @15 minute, 1oz. @flameout. I did this with a dry hop but like it better without. I use WLP001 California ale yeast. Great yeast for an IPA. Cheers!

 

[bransona]

Sounds delicious! I can easily match those amounts, and might even hop a little more aggressively (I'm a big hop flavor fan, and it'd work out perfectly if I did 4oz per each of 4 batches). I'm doing BIAB and have tried both with and without FWH and haven't been able to discern the difference. Maybe I'll play with that while I'm doing these first four trial batches.

My house ale is a MO/Mosaic SMaSH. Absolutely love it. I use all distilled water because my tap is just nasty and adjust using the E Z water Calculator to produce a balanced profile. I use hops as follows for a 5gal batch so you just have to adjust to your batch size. 0.5 oz. @ FWH, 0.5 oz. @ 60 minute, 1oz @15 minute, 1oz. @flameout. I did this with a dry hop but like it better without. I use WLP001 California ale yeast. Great yeast for an IPA. Cheers!

 

[bransona]

As is evident in this thread, I'm a bit torn between a hoppy APA and a juicy IPA. 4oz/2.5gal is likely to land me in IPA territory flavors, and it makes the most sense mathematically. For any further commenters, I think I'll pursue an IPA. Those have been my trouble beers before and I really want to nail one.

 

[Griffin495]

If you are trying to simplify things, have you thought about doing full volume mash BIAB? No need to sparge. I use this calculator, but you'll have to figure out your boil off rate, trub loss and grain absorption yourself. For me its .5G an hour, about 0.05 gallon trub loss per gallon and my absorption rate is 0.05 and I do squeeze the bag. Not crazy hard, but just enough to get out as much water as I need.

http://www.biabcalculator.com/

 

[Tarpon87]

I would start with something like what I linked, it's assumed 70% efficiency just as a starting point, you can adjust afterwards depending on what numbers you actually get. You can find out your boil off rate before hand so that would help some with how much volume to start with. If your brewer friends have a water report I'd enter those numbers into Bru'n water along with the grain bill you decide on and see if you need to adjust for PH. I'd make the first batch and get it kegged and carb'd.
Taste it to see what you do and don't like about it and make recipes changes after that, try not to make too many changes at once. Sounds like you don't want to change yeasts each time, so if you know you don't like US-05, I'd suggest 1272, Im a big fan of that for my IPA's. You wont be changing the grain bill for these 4 beers so the only thing left is the hop schedule, move the additions around to try and get the result you are looking for. Are you milling your own grain? If not, wherever you get it from have them double mill it for you, I have had good luck with the double crush from both Ritebrew and AtlanticBrewSupply, getting 75-78% efficiency with them.
I don't do a mash out step with BIAB, I suspend the bag above the kettle for about 20min and I do squeeze the hell out of it, high 70's low 80's for efficiency, but you'll need to find what works for you. You might not even make a change to the recipe for the second batch depending on what numbers you get, you may need to make a change to the process, and let that be the variable between brew 1 and brew 2. A lot of different ways to go with it, a lot will depend on how the first beer ends up.

 

[bransona]

If you are trying to simplify things, have you thought about doing full volume mash BIAB? No need to sparge. I use this calculator, but you'll have to figure out your boil off rate, trub loss and grain absorption yourself. For me its .5G an hour, about 0.05 gallon trub loss per gallon and my absorption rate is 0.05 and I do squeeze the bag. Not crazy hard, but just enough to get out as much water as I need.

http://www.biabcalculator.com/

I used to do full-volume mash BIAB. I found that the mash was entirely too thin, resulting in overly-fermentable wort and extremely thin beer. A stiffer mash, more akin to standard brewing practices, results in a wort that is much more to my design in terms of body and fermentability. If I remember correctly, my best results came from running the first wort back through the bag, then sparging twice (pre-boiled water) with heavy squeezing to get to boil volume. Always gave me awesome efficiency too.

 

[bransona]

This is the loose plan. I won't know a few details (exact yeast may change, ferment temp, AA of the mosaic, etc.) for a while, but this sounds like a tasty IPA to me. It also sounds like a very easy, repeatable brew day so I can zero in on my process.

For the dry hopping: I'll be using a new fermenter (BrewDemon 3gal conical) and don't know about dry hopping in it. I was thinking about doing it in the keg. Is that a good idea? Can/how can I even do that? Also, how long is a typical dry hopping?

 

[PADave]

I used to do full-volume mash BIAB. I found that the mash was entirely too thin, resulting in overly-fermentable wort and extremely thin beer. A stiffer mash, more akin to standard brewing practices, results in a wort that is much more to my design in terms of body and fermentability. If I remember correctly, my best results came from running the first wort back through the bag, then sparging twice (pre-boiled water) with heavy squeezing to get to boil volume. Always gave me awesome efficiency too.

Adjusting mash temps will change your beers body. Full volume BIAB isn't the cause of thin beers.