Gelatin made my cider cloudy

[progmac]

I added a teaspoon of gelatin to my 3 gallon carboy of cider in an attempt to clear it. Instead, it got very cloudy, almost milky. I added 1/8 tsp gelatin about two weeks ago and when it didn't clear i added another tsp about 72 hours ago.

Has anyone had this happen?

I have used gelatin with success in beer, I let it bloom in room temp water and then heat it to 150 and then add it into the carboy and stir with a racking cane.

 

[rocketsan22]

People need to learn patience

 

[Randzor]

People need to learn patience

Isn't that evident with everything now a days?

 

[rocketsan22]

Yes, yes it is...

 

[RukusDM]

I had a similar thing happen several years back but it eventually cleared after a week or 2.

I've read that some of the Wine Clearing products are 2 stage. The first stage takes care of positively charged suspended partials and the second stage is for negative...or vise versa.

I'm going to quote from - http://winemakermag.com/26-a-clearer-understanding-of-fining-agents

Chitosan (positive charge): As the name implies, it is composed of chitin, which is the structural element of the exoskeletons of crustaceans, such as crabs, shrimp and other shell fish. Chitosan is especially popular in clearing white wines, since it does not require the aid of tannins to clear, as do some fining agents like gelatine. When used with negatively-charged Kieselsol it is an effective remover of most suspended proteins and solids.

Chitosan and Kieselsol are often sold as a set, in sealed liquid envelopes as fining A (negatively charged Kieselsol) which is added to the wine first, and then fining B (positively charged chitosan) added about a day afterwards. Chitosan has a reputation for being fairly gentle on the character of finished wine.

Kieselsol (negative charge): Also known as silicon dioxide. Kieselsol works well with gelatine as a clearing agent, since it acts as a tannin substitute and works well to remove bitterness from white wines. When used with gelatine, the gelatine is added to the wine first, and then 24 to 48 hours later, a very small amount of Kieselsol is added, and should be racked off within 2 weeks. Kieselsol also works with chitosan (see the section on chitosan earlier).

Gelatine (positive charge): Gelatine is an animal protein. Like Bentonite, gelatine can be applied as a clearing agent pre- and post-fermentation. Gelatine is recommended for red wines since its positive charge helps reduce excessive tannins (tannin carries a negative charge). It can also be used on white wine to remove the bitter taste of excessive tannins. But in white wine excess gelatine can create a protein instability and develop a haze of its own. To prevent over stripping of white wine, gelatine can be used with Kieselsol. Kieselsol’s negative charge works as a tannin substitute to neutralize excess gelatine in the wine. The two agents with different charges working together also have the potential to both reduce astringency, and collect a greater number of charged solids.

Gelatine is available in powder, but some manufacturers offer it in liquid form. However, being an animal protein, it has a limited shelf life and the size of the liquid batch you purchase should be considered if you can’t use it all in one application.

If gelatine is used to reduce astringency in wine, it is easier to regulate the required dosage if you use the powdered form of this fining agent.

 

[progmac]

great info! i'll wait a couple of weeks and then check out Kieselsol. I think this is sold as "super kleer" and is available for a couple bucks at the LHBS.

I've also wondered if adding tannins might give the gelatin something to bond to and then fall out of solution..

 

[RukusDM]

great info! i'll wait a couple of weeks and then check out Kieselsol. I think this is sold as "super kleer" and is available for a couple bucks at the LHBS.

I've also wondered if adding tannins might give the gelatin something to bond to and then fall out of solution..

From what I've read Gelatin needs tannin to work. Not sure why.

I've seen the two stage stuff that used Kieselsol and Chitosan clear a guys cider in 24 hours. I don't think he had gelatine in there tho...just the two stage.

It was quite amazing. You can find it on youtube.

 

[progmac]

From what I've read Gelatin needs tannin to work. Not sure why.

I've seen the two stage stuff that used Kieselsol and Chitosan clear a guys cider in 24 hours. I don't think he had gelatine in there tho...just the two stage.

It was quite amazing. You can find it on youtube.

the fact that the gelatin won't clear might mean that i need to add tannin to my cider, so looking at the bright side at least I know that.

it is hard to find anywhere around here that makes a cider from true cider apples. everything tends to use too many of the sweet apples. i think it is designed for drinking unfermented.

 

[argentcorvid]

I had this happen to me. It didn't clear up after 2 1/2 weeks. I fixed it by adding Bentonite; it was much cheaper than kieselsol. I had to do two additions, but it got all the gelatin out. The first addition (at half strength) kinda worked, then the second full strength one was amazing; as soon as I stopped stirring, big "snowflakes" formed and immediately fell out. I let it sit for a day before bottling and now you can see through the beer bottle. When adding bentonite, you should stir the cider a couple times for maximum benefit. A degassing wand works best.

Here's a thread with some pictures I took

I think Super Kleer will work, but I would put in the Kieselsol portion first, as it is the right charge to clear up gelatin/pectin hazes (as in RukusDM's post upthread). If it works, I would then also skip the Chitosan, as the Kieselsol will be used up by the gelatin.

 

[progmac]

I put in the Kieselsol from super clear and immediately had a lot of coagulation. 18 hours later, there is a dramatic difference in clarity. It went from milky and opaque to where i can see my hand through the carboy. This worked.

I'm going to post pics after 48 hours or so.

Thanks guys

 

[progmac]

pics for those interested...

the carboy on the left is the subject carboy. the carboy on the right is from the same batch with no finings added at all. the one on the left became cloudy after adding gelatin.

before adding the Kieselsol

24 hours after adding Kieselsol

before bottling..after about 72 hours

 

[argentcorvid]

Thanks for the good pictures. This matches my results, even though I used bentonite.

 

[progmac]

Thanks for the good pictures. This matches my results, even though I used bentonite.

i am certainly thrilled with the results. this years cider is a million times better than last year's. i'm trying to learn to treat cider like cider and not like beer. i have two other 3 gallon carboys this year...one sweet cider and another dry...and those i am going to forego the finings and let age until march and then bottle.