Frustrated by Chiller

[kshuler]

Hi-

I had been using a CFC initially with gravity draining and it seemed to work fairly well. Could run it wide open with gravity drain and cool to 68-70 or so as fast as gravity would go- perhaps 7-10 minutes for a 5.5-6 gallon boil.

I then bought a pump and a brand new 40 plate chiller from mambler2002 on ebay. Here is a link to the product:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Brazed-Stainles...ultDomain_0&hash=item27b3d9d456#ht_718wt_1061http://cgi.ebay.com/Brazed-Stainles...ultDomain_0&hash=item27b3d9d456#ht_718wt_1061)

I noticed it didn't cool well at all when the pump was pushing. So I tried gravity again. Mother^&^%&r! Going at gravity with 65 degree cooling water (with the hose on full blast) and the thrumometer topped out at 88 and then the colors went away, meaning it was even higher. In order to make it chill down to 74 degrees (way too hot) I had to slow the thing down to a tiny little trickle that took almost 15 minutes to drain the kettle!

Anyone have any idea what is going on? I got the link to this guy by IloveBeer- a senior member who has used his for a long time and says it works great.

Is there something I am doing wrong? There seems to be no difference between the cooling water and wort intake sides, and I don't think it matters which of the ports you use for cooling water or wort (they should be ridged on both sides). I have tried it with the ports facing sideways or pointing up in the are and there seems to be no difference in cooling ability. Perhaps putting it vertical with the wort intake on the bottom? This is very discouraging considering the surface area is more than a therminator for this plate chiller. I would expect it to cool very rapidly indeed. Oh, and I am running the hot wort into one side and the cold water in the other side so there is counterflow.

I appreciate any help.

Klaus

Does anyone have any suggestions?

 

[homebeerbrewer]

I may be way off here, but it sounds to me that you don't have a cross flow. I don't own a plate chiller, so I have no idea what ports are the hot and cold sides. What I'd do is hook it up in various ways to see which configuration works best.

 

[JoMarky]

The 4th picture on the ebay listing is a diagram of where the lines are supposed to be connected. Does it match how you had it set up?

 

[bull8042]

The ports you use are irrelevant so long as you take your wort in on one end and the cooling water in on the other, which you state you have already done.

The Therminator has 0.69 M^2 of total plate surface area as near as I can tell. The specs on your chiller says it has 18.6 in^2, or 0.012 M^2, which make me seriously question the accuracy of the specs.
Duda Diesel lists a B3-12A 30 plate as having a surface area of 0.36 M^2. Since yours has 40 plates, I would imagine the correct surface area should be around 0.48 M^2, give or take. That being said, yours has about 70% of the surface area of the therminator, therefore, I would assume about 70% of the performance as well.
You didn't say which CFC you have been using, but I was using a Chillus Convolutus until switching to a plate chiller and it produced fairly admirable results. I think slowing your wort flow is the right answer considering to size of the chiller.

Here is analysis of a B3-32A 40 plate, which has a plate area of 1.28 M^2. This chiller is 2.7 times larger than the one you have.

Hot Fluid
Substance: water/wort
Flow Rate: 2 gpm
In Temp: 212°F
Out Temp: 70°F

Cold Fluid
Substance: water
Flow Rate: 4 gpm
In Temp: 60°F

As you can see, it would take 2.5 minutes (2 gpm) to chill 5 gal of boiling wort to 70°F using 60°F cooling water at 4 gpm. So the results you are seeing are maybe not too far off of its capabilities.
Not what you want to hear I am sure, but I think is an accurate answer.

 

[merddyn2002]

low tech solution to chilling wort
3 2-liters of sanitized water, frozen rock solid. Sanitize the outsides of the 2-liters and drop them into your kettle after the boil. Given about 20 minutes i'm down to 80 degrees after adding another 2 gallons of room temp water (I do a reduced boil)

If you do a full boil you could just add another frozen 2-liter or two.

No hoses, no pumps, no gravity feeds. The 2-liters are completely re-usable and WAY cheaper than chillers and pumps. If you want a faster chill time just stir the wort while it's chilling and it'll chill much faster. Works like a charm.

When in doubt KISS, just my 5 cents accounting for inflation.

 

[Captain_Bigelow]

I had the same plate chiller - just sold it yesterday to another HBT member. My last batch could only get down to 86 and also a trickle like you. I figured my cooling water was not cool enough. I am switching to a CFC or IC and whirlpooling.

You do have a counter flow going right? I once tried it and accidentally had the cold water and hot wort flowing in the same direction. I realized after the lowest temp I could get was 95!

 

[bull8042]

I had the same plate chiller - just sold it yesterday to another HBT member. My last batch could only get down to 86 and also a trickle like you. I figured my cooling water was not cool enough. I am switching to a CFC or IC and whirlpooling.

You do have a counter flow going right? I once tried it and accidentally had the cold water and hot wort flowing in the same direction. I realized after the lowest temp I could get was 95!

Yeah, that chiller just seems way too small for anyone doing a full boil.

 

[Bobby_M]

low tech solution to chilling wort
3 2-liters of sanitized water, frozen rock solid. Sanitize the outsides of the 2-liters and drop them into your kettle after the boil. Given about 20 minutes i'm down to 80 degrees after adding another 2 gallons of room temp water (I do a reduced boil)

If you do a full boil you could just add another frozen 2-liter or two.

No hoses, no pumps, no gravity feeds. The 2-liters are completely re-usable and WAY cheaper than chillers and pumps. If you want a faster chill time just stir the wort while it's chilling and it'll chill much faster. Works like a charm.

When in doubt KISS, just my 5 cents accounting for inflation.

This is completely impractical for full boils.

 

[kshuler]

Hi-

Thanks everyone who wrote. Yes, I am sure that I did set it up for counter flow.
I double checked it when it was running because I couldn't believe what I was seeing. I checked the specs between this chiller and the dudadiesel 20 plate version-- everything is exactly the same- flow rate, volume per channel, dimensions, max and min temp, design and test pressure, and heat transfer capacity. The only differences are: 1) 316 vs 304 stainless, 2) the heat exchange areas (addressed below) 3) number of plates. That being said the outside dimensions are 21.6 sq. in, and I think the guy is listing the "per channel" heat exchange size. This makes 0.129 sq ft per plate as opposed to the 0.14 sq ft per plate listed for the dudadiesel chiller. Multiply that by 40 and you have 5.6 sq feet of heat exchange (0.514 meters). The Therminator is 6.5 sq ft (per mashmaster chart).

So, I apologize for the "more surface area than the therminator" thing... that was off my early onset alzheimier's memory. I should know better than doing things off memory. But it is pretty darn close to a therminator (86% of the surface area). Shouldn't it get 86% of the performance, then, instead of 10% of the performance?

Klaus

 

[bull8042]

........
So, I apologize for the "more surface area than the therminator" thing... that was off my early onset alzheimier's memory. I should know better than doing things off memory. But it is pretty darn close to a therminator (86% of the surface area). Shouldn't it get 86% of the performance, then, instead of 10% of the performance?

Klaus

Hey Klaus,
No one is calling you out, so no worries. I agree with your summation as to the 86% assumption. I have had a few conversations with Brian at Duda Diesel and he seems to really know his stuff (His last name is Duda, so I guess he should know). Give him a ring and tell him what you have and what your specifics are (In temp, Out temp, flow rate, etc) and let him tell you what you should be seeing. I think he can shed much more light on your situation than most of us can.
Good luck...