Fruit beer carbonation

[Idlehanz]

A few months ago I tried making a raspberrry porter. When it was ready for carbonating and bottling I used 3/4 cup of suger and bottled it up. It's been bottled for almost two months now, and I've popped a few open and found that none of them have any carbonation. Being as this was only my second brew, I forgot the get the OG or FG. I'm guessing all the yeast were dead and there were none left to eat up the sugars. Seems obvious anyway.

Now I'm about ready to bottle a orange hef. This time I have my OG ( 1.034), and I'll take my FG tomorrow before I bottle. What range should I be looking for to ensure I'm not going to end up with a flat beer again? Also, is there any way to save the raspberry porter I have? I didn't throw it away yet, ( it tastes great, just flat ) but I'm hoping it can be fixed somehow.

This noob thanks you for the help!

 

[NuclearRich]

A few months ago I tried making a raspberrry porter. When it was ready for carbonating and bottling I used 3/4 cup of suger and bottled it up. It's been bottled for almost two months now, and I've popped a few open and found that none of them have any carbonation. Being as this was only my second brew, I forgot the get the OG or FG. I'm guessing all the yeast were dead and there were none left to eat up the sugars. Seems obvious anyway.

Well unless it was either really high gravity or a really small yeast pitch, it is unlikeyl that there wasn't enough for carbing. Did temperatures change at all? If you drop the temp at the beginning of carbing, you could put those yeasties to sleep. I did that once, I had to warm the bottles (to room temp), uncap, mix the beer up, recap, and let sit for 3 weeks. Also, if you spike the temp, that could have killed the yeast.

Now I'm about ready to bottle a orange hef. This time I have my OG ( 1.034), and I'll take my FG tomorrow before I bottle. What range should I be looking for to ensure I'm not going to end up with a flat beer again? Also, is there any way to save the raspberry porter I have? I didn't throw it away yet, ( it tastes great, just flat ) but I'm hoping it can be fixed somehow.

This noob thanks you for the help!

The only thing (in this case) the FG is telling you is that it is finished fermenting, so you don't bottle while there is still more conversion to be done, otherwise you will have bottle bombs. You would want to take a measurement like maybe 2 days in a row, just to be sure. I usually just wait a long primary fermenting time.

Describe your bottling a little more precisely from the rasp porter, maybe someone can pinpoint an error. Does the porter taste sweet? If no carbing took place, then it could be recarbed with new yeast on the sugar thats already in it. If it carbed and the seal was bad somehow, you can redo the whole process...

 

[Idlehanz]

Well unless it was either really high gravity or a really small yeast pitch, it is unlikeyl that there wasn't enough for carbing. Did temperatures change at all? If you drop the temp at the beginning of carbing, you could put those yeasties to sleep. I did that once, I had to warm the bottles (to room temp), uncap, mix the beer up, recap, and let sit for 3 weeks. Also, if you spike the temp, that could have killed the yeast.






The only thing (in this case) the FG is telling you is that it is finished fermenting, so you don't bottle while there is still more conversion to be done, otherwise you will have bottle bombs. You would want to take a measurement like maybe 2 days in a row, just to be sure. I usually just wait a long primary fermenting time.

Describe your bottling a little more precisely from the rasp porter, maybe someone can pinpoint an error. Does the porter taste sweet? If no carbing took place, then it could be recarbed with new yeast on the sugar thats already in it. If it carbed and the seal was bad somehow, you can redo the whole process...

I didn't have any significant tempurature change. I kept them between 68 and 72 F My initial yeast was a 1056.

For the bottling, I mixed 3/4 cup of corn sugar in hot, but not boiling water, let it dissolve, and put it in a plastic bucket. Cleaned and sterilized of course. Poured the beer in, filtering out the fruit. Then bottled it.

I should elaborate a bit by saying they aren't all flat. A couple had that nice hiss when I popped em open and they got a little head, but it went away quick and you don't get any bubbles coming up through the beer. I just opened one and it poured a small head on it, but again, no real bubbles in the beer. It's got a nice strong raspberry smell, and the initial taste is raspberry sweet porter, but it has a bitterness at the end. Not a hops flavored bitterness either. It's not enough to make you spit it out, but surely noticable.

I have thought about openeing every single bottle and retyring it. How much yeast would I use to mix with what's left? Surely not a whole package? Suppose it depends on how much I actually have left.

 

[l1ranger]

when did you bottle the raspberry porter?

did you actually pour the beer from the fermenter into the bottling bucket, or did you siphon it?

 

[Idlehanz]

Siphoned it into the bottling bucket.

Brewed it on 3/6/10

Racked with fruit 3/14/10

Bottled 3/21/10

 

[NuclearRich]

For the bottling, I mixed 3/4 cup of corn sugar in hot, but not boiling water, let it dissolve, and put it in a plastic bucket. Cleaned and sterilized of course. Poured the beer in, filtering out the fruit. Then bottled it.

Did you allow the hot sugar to cool?

 

[Idlehanz]

Did you allow the hot sugar to cool?

I don't exactly remember, but I'd say that I probably didn't let it sit very long before adding the brew.....so I probably killed off any remaining yeast if that's the case.

 

[wonderbread23]

Did you allow the hot sugar to cool?

That small amount of hot water would have no effect on the yeast. It is a tiny volume compared to the 5 gallons of beer. I'm guessing that this is a higher alcohol beer and that the yeast have simply hit their limit. Kinda impossible to tell though without OG/FG readings. For high OG beers I like to repitch with fresh yeast at bottling time.

 

[Idlehanz]

That small amount of hot water would have no effect on the yeast. It is a tiny volume compared to the 5 gallons of beer. I'm guessing that this is a higher alcohol beer and that the yeast have simply hit their limit. Kinda impossible to tell though without OG/FG readings. For high OG beers I like to repitch with fresh yeast at bottling time.

Yea, probably shouldn't have tried it for my second batch. I think I jumped in a little over my head. I'm kicking myself for forgetting the gravity readings, but lesson learned I guess. I'm still going to try to save it, just not sure how exactly. And I'm going to bottle my orange hef soon, I'll just have to be carefull with it too I suppose.

 

[Revvy]

Have they been stored above 70? Before we start looking at "problems" which are rare, let's look at the basics. I have had stouts and porters need 8 weeks to carb....if the grav was higher with the fruit, it could realistically take longer, for no other reason, but that it simply needs more time.

 

[Idlehanz]

They've been sitting between 68-72 F the whole time. I keep them in my kitchen, in the corner, with dark towels over them.

 

[Revvy]

They've been sitting between 68-72 F the whole time. I keep them in my kitchen, in the corner, with dark towels over them.

If it's dropping below 70 though it may seem no big deal to us, it can slow carbonation down and if it's a big beer, that just means more time.

Agitate each bottle once to re-suspend the yeast, and if there's a warmer closet, move them there, and check back in a couple weeks more.

 

[Idlehanz]

If it's dropping below 70 though it may seem no big deal to us, it can slow carbonation down and if it's a big beer, that just means more time.

Agitate each bottle once to re-suspend the yeast, and if there's a warmer closet, move them there, and check back in a couple weeks more.

Will do. Thanks for the advice!

 

[NuclearRich]

That small amount of hot water would have no effect on the yeast. It is a tiny volume compared to the 5 gallons of beer. I'm guessing that this is a higher alcohol beer and that the yeast have simply hit their limit. Kinda impossible to tell though without OG/FG readings. For high OG beers I like to repitch with fresh yeast at bottling time.

... a small amount of water sitting at 180*F can do a lot of damage. Just a splash would scald your whole face. Translate that to sensitive yeast cells. Surely it didn't do NOTHING.

In any case, make sure you cool the sugar a little better (I usually ice bath it in another pot for 15 mins while I set everything else up for bottling).

And I agree with Revvy, My porter always takes forever to carb. I think a solid 8 weeks the last time I made it. Give it time, it sucks but sometimes you have to be patient.

 

[Idlehanz]

... a small amount of water sitting at 180*F can do a lot of damage. Just a splash would scald your whole face. Translate that to sensitive yeast cells. Surely it didn't do NOTHING.

In any case, make sure you cool the sugar a little better (I usually ice bath it in another pot for 15 mins while I set everything else up for bottling).

And I agree with Revvy, My porter always takes forever to carb. I think a solid 8 weeks the last time I made it. Give it time, it sucks but sometimes you have to be patient.

Cool the sugar....now added to the mental checklist.

I'll let it sit, patience isn't a problem. Thanks for all the help.

 

[JeepDiver]

... a small amount of water sitting at 180*F can do a lot of damage. Just a splash would scald your whole face. Translate that to sensitive yeast cells. Surely it didn't do NOTHING.
.

It may have done something, but it didn't do much. If you have 2 cups of water at 180 then add 2 cups of beer at 70, your temp is now 125, so that yeast is probably dead. Double the amount of liquid by adding 4 cups of beer and your temp is 97.5 and while maybe that yeast is dead, you now have over 4 gallons of beer with live yeast.

It is best to cool it down some, but it's not going to keep you from carbing up in bottles.

 

[NuclearRich]

It may have done something, but it didn't do much. If you have 2 cups of water at 180 then add 2 cups of beer at 70, your temp is now 125, so that yeast is probably dead. Double the amount of liquid by adding 4 cups of beer and your temp is 97.5 and while maybe that yeast is dead, you now have over 4 gallons of beer with live yeast.

It is best to cool it down some, but it's not going to keep you from carbing up in bottles.

... or you can just not put hot sugar in at all... why rationalize a potential problem when it is easily avoided?

 

[NuclearRich]

Cool the sugar....now added to the mental checklist.

I'll let it sit, patience isn't a problem. Thanks for all the help.

Hope in a month we can hear a success story! Good luck

 

[Idlehanz]

Hope in a month we can hear a success story! Good luck

I'll let you know. I suddenly realized it's been sitting in the bottle for around 8 weeks right now. I'll let it keep going. I'm not going to even crack another for a few more weeks.

 

[shanecb]

As previously stated, it's probably just taking awhile. I'm 3 weeks into carbing a robust porter at around 67 degrees F and it's just lightly carbonated at this point.

 

[Idlehanz]

Cool, that give's me hope. I'll let it sit, and come back to it in the summer.

Thanks for everyone's advice and help.

 

[Idlehanz]

It's been a few more weeks and I've cracked a few more. Out of four, two turned out great and two were still completely uncarbonated. I'm finding it weird that some are and some aren't, but I guess that just happens. The ones that did carbonate and I've let others try have gotten nothing but compliments, so I happy about that. I just cracked another, and it's beautifull Nice head, looks awesome, tastes great! I'm glad this batch wasn't a total bust.

BTW, the uncarbonated one's I mixed with some Youngs Chocolate Stout. Absolutely awesome. Young's and a raspberry lambic are also a great combo.

 

[NuclearRich]

Good to hear that it is a mostly positive batch! I have been drinking them a lot in the past 2 weeks with family and friends, and the consensus (especially amongst the less adventerous beer drinkers) is that it is great.
Personally here is how I see it: Honey colored and very opaque (more than I expected, but it was my first wheat beer, so I guess I didn't really know what to expect anyway). Thin white head with a quick dissipation and minimal lacing (with occasional bottles that seem better carbed, with a thicker head and better retention). Great upfront raspberry smell. Tastes of raspberry until swallowed, where it is switched completely to a nice mellow wheat flavor. Carbonation feels just fine. Overall a great taste for the summer.
One friend compared it to Budweiser's "B^e" energy beer, lol. Which it vaguely tasted like this I guess.
I did have a few that I bottled in grolsh style bottles, and one that I popped open must have had a poor seal because it was totally flat. Otherwise a great batch!

Congrats to you, on yours, and enjoy it all season!