Founders Backwood Bastard Clone Attempt

[Bashiba]

Founders Backwoods Bastard is one of my all time favorites, unfortunately its very hard to come by and only made once a year. I have searched high and low for a clone with no luck, so here is what I came up with, any thoughts would be appreciated. Its basically a ramped up version of a Dirty Bastard Clone recipe I found with some peat added for some nice smoke flavor.

5 Gallon batch
15lb 2row
1lb CaraPils
1lb CaraMunich
1lb Caravienne
1lb Special B
2oz Peated Malt
4oz Black Patent
4oz Chocolate

2.5oz Styrian Goldings 90min
1.25oz Styrian Goldings 30min
1oz Styrian Goldings 2min

The beersmith numbers on my system come out to OG-11.04 FG 1.024 for 10.49% and 50.5 IBU's, which is very close to the actual beers numbers.


Probably go with 2 packets of Nottingham for yeast, I know a Scottish Yeast would probably be better, but don't want to spend the extra cash when Nottingham should take care of it cleanly, not looking for a big yeast flavor anyway.

Will age with Bourbon Soaked Oak Chips for flavor,

Probably mash at 154 and batch sparge.

Trying to nail down a recipe for an actual 40 gallon whiskey barrel fill later this summer.

Thanks in Advance.

 

[Oldsock]

Looks like too much crystal (4 lbs) and too many malts to me. In general, and especially with long aged beers, simplicity is the best bet. I would stick to a base malt, one crystal malt (caramunich), one dark malt (chocolate), and one additional specialty malt (peat). I’d also skip the late boil hop addition (since you should be aging this on the oak for a couple months).

Here is the wee heavy recipe a couple friends and I put into a 55 gallon bourbon barrel last February

Grain
------
80.3% 15.00 lbs. Maris Otter or Golden Promise
10.7% 2.00 lbs. Munich Malt
2.7% 0.50 lbs. Crystal 90L
2.7% 0.50 lbs. Melanoidin Malt
0.5% 0.125 lbs. Chocolate Malt
OG ~1.097

“Sadly” the microbes from the red wine barrel Flanders Red next to it jumped over and soured it. Luckily we rolled with it and added some extra sour bottle dregs and it came out beautifully. A year gave a bit too much tannic oak character, but it has nice vanilla/coconut aromas.

 

[Homercidal]

I would drop the Caravienne and Special B and see what happens. It does seem like a lot of crystal IMO. And don't forget toe judge the beer several months in. A beer like that will need to age a bit.

 

[Bashiba]

Supposedly they use these four crystals in their version thats why they are all there. But I have no idea on the amounts of each, the dirty bastard clone recipe had them at about a half pound each, so I was thinking I would kick them up for the stronger version, but maybe it would be better to stick with a 1/2 lb of each and just bump up the base malt to even it out a bit.

Thanks for the input both of you.

Your recipe looks pretty Tasty Old Sock, what hops and yeast did you use?

 

[Homercidal]

Where did you read the ingredients? I could email Dave at Founders and see if he will at least tell me what malts they use. Never hurts to ask. He's told me what hops they use in Double Trouble before.

 

[Oldsock]

Supposedly they use these four crystals in their version thats why they are all there. But I have no idea on the amounts of each, the dirty bastard clone recipe had them at about a half pound each, so I was thinking I would kick them up for the stronger version, but maybe it would be better to stick with a 1/2 lb of each and just bump up the base malt to even it out a bit.

Thanks for the input both of you.

Your recipe looks pretty Tasty Old Sock, what hops and yeast did you use?

You can certainly use all the crystal malts, but keep the total down closer to a pound or two (with a high starting gravity getting the beer to be anything but cloyingly sweet can be a challenge). I was under the impression that it was the same beer just bourbon barrel aged, the residual alcohol in the wood can add a couple percents to the ABV.

Ours was a group brew, so hops varied (with only 25 IBUs at 60 min it doesn't matter much). People used clean yeast either Scottish or American. The combined gravity was around 1.028 when it went into the barrel (with the bugs it was all the way down to 1.014 when we bottled).

 

[Bashiba]

Thats a good point, I never thought about it picking up a little more alcohol in the barrel, I always just assumed they gave the regular version a nice little bump and then threw it in.

I didn't really consider the bump that the bourbon soaked oak chips will give it, maybe I need to dial it back a little more to compensate.

Thanks

 

[Bashiba]

Where did you read the ingredients? I could email Dave at Founders and see if he will at least tell me what malts they use. Never hurts to ask. He's told me what hops they use in Double Trouble before.

Here is the source of the Dirty Bastard Recipe I found.
http://www.tastybrew.com/forum/thread/191501

 

[Bashiba]

Here is what I ended up using.

14lb 2row
.5lb Cara Pils
.5lb Caramunich
.5lb Caravienne
.5lb Special B
.25lb Chocolate
.125lb Peated malt
1oz Chinnook at 60 min
1oz Goldings at 30
1oz Goldings at 10
1 cup bourbon
4oz oak chips

Mashed at 152
60min boil

Used Nottingham Yeast.

Did this twice. The first time had terrible efficiency due to a poor crush from the LHS, in fact led me to buy a barley crusher. It was still good but not even close to the original.

Rebrewed with better crushed grains and it is much closer. Not quite there yet, we aged it in the secondary with chips for 3 weeks. Lacking a bit in the oak flavor and not quite Thick enough

Next time I'm going to get nice toasted cubes or planks and age it much longer. The bourbon seems about right, and the recipe doesn't seem to far off, but just a little lacking in the thickness and some of the crystal notes. I'm thinking of Upping the Special B or Caramunich the next time I do it. I will probably also go to a 90min boil and up the mash temp to 154.

Love to hear back from anyone else trying to get this done.

 

[devilishprune]

Thanks for the update. Next time I get ingredients I'll grab some for this brew.

What original gravity did you get on this?

Do you think that 154 would get the body that you want? When I drank it it seemed almost syrupy in the body

 

[Bashiba]

Thats what I'm hoping maybe a bit higher mash temp and a bit more of one of the crystal malts to get it a little thicker.

Was looking over the second run, actually raised the base malt to 15lbs

Gravity was 1.080 and finished at 1.016

Also switched to Safale 04 for the second batch.

 

[ThePell]

How long until we get to hear an update on how the second batch turned out? This was the first year I had Backwoods and I'd love to recreate it.

 

[WCoyoteSG]

Bump , come on people i love this stuff

 

[cdelap]

Any updates?

 

[andyphil27]

Thats what I'm hoping maybe a bit higher mash temp and a bit more of one of the crystal malts to get it a little thicker.

Was looking over the second run, actually raised the base malt to 15lbs

Gravity was 1.080 and finished at 1.016

Also switched to Safale 04 for the second batch.

Ok, this was three years ago, but how'd it turn out with the higher mash temp and more crystal? Have you learned anything more since then?

 

[mbbransc]

Doesn't look like we'll get any update on this but I'm curious if others have any suggestions.

 

[Bashiba]

My last run was pretty good, but still not quite as spot on as I would have hoped, it seems like there is to much crystal malt, but it still wasn't quite thick enough. I have never really went back to this recipe, instead going with more traditional style Scottish ales since then. I would probably try something like this if I was going to do it again.

14lb 2row
1lb Cara Pils
1lb Caramunich
.5lb Caravienne
.5lb Special B
.25lb Chocolate
.25lb Cherry wood Smoked
1oz Chinnook at 60 min
1oz Goldings at 30
1oz Goldings at 10
1 cup bourbon
4oz oak chips
Wyeast 1728 Scottish Ale Yeast

Mash at 158

 

[mbbransc]

Thx for posting. I'm going to give a go on 09/20 and I'm trying to nail down what I'll use.

What temp did you ferment the 1728?

 

[mbbransc]

I just got a response from Founders regarding the grain bill for Backwoods Bastard...

I’m sorry. While we love to support home brewing, we do have a few trade secrets.
Best of luck! Cheers!

Looks like we're on our own.

 

[riceral]

Really like Founders, especially their Backwoods Bastard, and wish they could have given us some direction.

By the same time----you really have to agree that there are some things that have to remain undisclosed.

Also, it gives us a chance to practice designing recipes and being creative.

 

[Sisley]

Any updates?? I probably began brewing around the time the last comment was made.