Flavor 'Deterioration'

[BrewChem]

So... back in late May, I brewed a fairly simple saison... pitched Wyeast 3724 (Belgian Saison) and kept it around 80F for 2 months. Three weeks ago, I kegged directly from the primary, carbed and bottled... tasted great..! Exactly what I was shooting for... crisp, 'Belgian-y' flavor with a nice hint of hoppy-citrus that finishes nice and dry. Took a few bottles to work and everyone loved it...

Due to lack of space, I only keep a few bottles in the fridge and replenish as needed. The rest of the bottles are stored in a crawlspace that hovers round 65F until they're needed in the fridge.

I cracked a cold one open last night and the taste is way different... the hop flavor and aroma is gone and the beer tastes almost smokey... hard to discribe but it's not at all what it once was. I opened another two bottles to be sure and found the same thing.

Cleaning bottles, kegs and other gear, I soak in hot Oxyclean overnight followed by a thorough rinse with warm water before going into a Starsan solution...

Anyone have any suggestions or experienced anything like this..? Oxidation maybe..?

 

[ColoHox]

A smokeyness is sometimes used to describe oxidation. There is good evidence that beer stored at 65F for greater than 12 weeks experiences significant oxidation or staling compared to refrigerated beer.

 

[BrewChem]

What I was afraid of... dammit...! And it was so good...!

 

[Denny]

Smokiness can also be a sign of infection.

 

[highgravitybacon]

Smokiness can also be a sign of infection.

This and / or chloramines/chlorine in the water.

 

[homebrewdad]

A smokeyness is sometimes used to describe oxidation. There is good evidence that beer stored at 65F for greater than 12 weeks experiences significant oxidation or staling compared to refrigerated beer.

I have an imperial nut brown ale (8.66% ABV) that is approaching eighteen months old in the bottle. Its been stored at basement temps which vary from 59 degrees on the very coldest days to 68 on the very hottest.

The beer is noticeably better today than it was a year ago.

I have a Belgian blonde (~7.4% ABV) that is better than a year old. As good today as it was six weeks in the bottle.

Now, I did have a normal brown ale that definitely lost some edge to the flavor at about ten months in bottles.

I disagree with your staling assertion. I'd say that some styles (specifically, some bigger beers like big Belgians, barleywines, etc) all but require extended cellar temp aging.

 

[BrewChem]

If it was a chloramine/chlorine problem, wouldn't that have been evident right out of the keg..? It fermented for 2 months and went straight to a keg from the primary and tatsted good. The flavor seemed to change (for the worse) after being in the bottles for 2-3 weeks.

The ABV is ~6.2%... would this be enough to stave off a post-fermentation infection...? If so, I'd hang my hat on it having oxidized during kegging/bottling/storage. Probly didn't help keeping it at room temperature.

It's funny... I brewed a wit some time ago and it tasted like a wet dog smells... after 4 weeks at room temperature, it was much, much better and after 6 weeks, it was exactly what it should be... didn't last long after that so I don't know what would have happened if it had sat longer.

I'd say that some styles (specifically, some bigger beers like big Belgians, barleywines, etc) all but require extended cellar temp aging.

I totally agree there ^ ... I have made several big stouts that have certainly gotten better with age but... styles like an IPA are better enjoyed while young. I suppose that some of the flavor/aroma compounds in certain styles are more chemically 'delicate' than others...

 

[Denny]

The ABV is ~6.2%... would this be enough to stave off a post-fermentation infection...?

Not necessarily. And if it is infected, you don't really know it was post fermentation. It could have been infected earlier and it's just showing up now. That said, there's no way of knowing if that's what happened since I haven't tasted the beer. It's just a possibility.

 

[ColoHox]

I have an imperial nut brown ale (8.66% ABV) that is approaching eighteen months old in the bottle. Its been stored at basement temps which vary from 59 degrees on the very coldest days to 68 on the very hottest.

The beer is noticeably better today than it was a year ago.

I have a Belgian blonde (~7.4% ABV) that is better than a year old. As good today as it was six weeks in the bottle.

Now, I did have a normal brown ale that definitely lost some edge to the flavor at about ten months in bottles.

I disagree with your staling assertion. I'd say that some styles (specifically, some bigger beers like big Belgians, barleywines, etc) all but require extended cellar temp aging.

Not just assertions, actual evidence in fact (see pdfs below). It also says in both papers that extended aging is necessary to develop particular compounds in aged beers that are not necessarily considered off-flavors. I know many people have experienced both sides of the aging coin. I was speaking to the OP's comments about reduced flavor/aroma with a slight smoky addition, which sounds like staled beer to me.

View attachment Metabolomic profile of beer during storage.pdf

View attachment Chemistry of beer aging.pdf

 

[BrewChem]

That's all well, fine, and good... but... assuming it is oxidation/stale-ness ... what can one do to prevent/minimize this from happening..? Is it as simple as refrigerating after bottling or does are there some tricks to the trade..?

I'm always looking for ways to improve my process..!

 

[highgravitybacon]

That's all well, fine, and good... but... assuming it is oxidation/stale-ness ... what can one do to prevent/minimize this from happening..? Is it as simple as refrigerating after bottling or does are there some tricks to the trade..?

I'm always looking for ways to improve my process..!

Protect your beer from heat, light, and oxygen. That is it.

I think there's greater flavor stability in pasteurized beers. If you are curious if it works, do a split batch with a triangle tasting.

 

[joyceman]

Oxygen absorbing caps?

For long term storage (talking a year or so) does anyone wax the tops? I know some mead makers do, but they can hold onto bottles for years.

 

[Yooper]

Not just assertions, actual evidence in fact (see pdfs below). It also says in both papers that extended aging is necessary to develop particular compounds in aged beers that are not necessarily considered off-flavors. I know many people have experienced both sides of the aging coin. I was speaking to the OP's comments about reduced flavor/aroma with a slight smoky addition, which sounds like staled beer to me.

I agree. It sounds like it's aged too much, due to the flavor description. Some beers age well, some don't. It's true that oxidation may not show up early, but with time it may and that is often what starts the beer on the path to tasting stale.

That's all well, fine, and good... but... assuming it is oxidation/stale-ness ... what can one do to prevent/minimize this from happening..? Is it as simple as refrigerating after bottling or does are there some tricks to the trade..?

I'm always looking for ways to improve my process..!

Beer ages faster at warmer temperatures- so yes, sticking a beer in the fridge when it's at its peak will help a lot. Or at least, keeping the beer at cellar temperatures will slow down the aging process more than at room temperature.

Extremely cautious racking (to avoid oxidation during racking and bottling) will help as well. Many people describe oxidation as "cardboard", and it can be.

But generally, the early signs are just that the beer starts tasting older and a bit stale. Later, it picks up some "sherry" notes. It has to be severe oxidation to taste of cardboard, and that's rare. Many people claim they have "no signs of oxidation" in their beer, but that's because it doesn't taste like cardboard. In my experience, most of the beers I've judged in competition do have some signs of oxidation even if slight. And the older the beer, the more likely to have some signs. Keeping it cool once it's conditioned will help slow that process as well.

 

[BrewChem]

Guess it was oxidation aggrivated by temperature... SWMBO gave a friend a few bottles a few days after bottling. She put them in the fridge that day and just got into them last night... said they tasted great and tasted exactly as they were described while the bottles I have stored at room temp seem to have gone south in the same amount of time.

Guess I need to re-think my storage situation for some styles...Humbug..!!