First wort or mash hop
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Do it>Do it? Dooo it! Try first wort on a pale ale recipe. Move half of your first charge to the pot before you start your first runnings. It is thought to have a bitterness that is smoother and less harsh. I tried it on an all Chinook rye IPA and I was very happy with it. Mash hopping, as I see it, might be best left to 2X IPAs and barlewines in which you have hopped the hell out of already.
??????????????what are you talking about?
First wort hopping is when you add hops to the kettle when you are sparging. They steep in the wort during sparging and then continue to stay in the kettle when you are boiling.
Mash hopping is adding hops during the mash.
I haven't tried either and don't know much about them but some say mash hopping is a waste of hops. People say that first wort hopping adds a smoother bitterness than adding the hops right at the start of boil.
Mash hopping, is adding the hops to the mash. From what I have read, it doesn't do much.
First Wort Hopping is adding the hops to the wort after you finish mashing, but before bringing to the boil. If you steep/extract you could add them when you remove the steeping grains to get similar results. FWH is said to provide a 'smoother' bitterness, I don't notice that, but think it provides less bitterness, so in my recipes I calculate the bitterness as though they are in there for only 30 minutes, although they are in the wort for the whole boil. FWH also provides more flavor, presumably the lower heat extracts some of the flavor oils and somehow retains it in the wort. I often move my flavor addition (15 minutes) to FWH, and make no other adjustments to the recipe.
First Wort Hopping is adding the hops to the wort after you finish mashing, but before bringing to the boil. If you steep/extract you could add them when you remove the steeping grains to get similar results. FWH is said to provide a 'smoother' bitterness, I don't notice that, but think it provides less bitterness, so in my recipes I calculate the bitterness as though they are in there for only 30 minutes, although they are in the wort for the whole boil. FWH also provides more flavor, presumably the lower heat extracts some of the flavor oils and somehow retains it in the wort. I often move my flavor addition (15 minutes) to FWH, and make no other adjustments to the recipe.
OK;I heard and read about it before, just did'nt register in my brain
I watched a guy doing this at brew day showing but could'nt hear what he was saying and never took the time that day to watch the entire process. There were to many things to see and try for just an afternoon. I do toss the hops in the kettle before dumping the wort, but thought I was being lazy and just getting ahead before I forgot something. Huh first wort hopping.... what do ya know. Time to do some reading again. Happy Holidays
The latest episode of BeerSmith Podcast is a round table of Denny Conn, Gordon Strong, and John Palmer, and this is one of the topics they cover. It is a good watch/listen.
If you don't feel like it listening to it, basically they saw no reason to do Mash hopping and felt like FWH is like adding even more aroma (20min) hops.
If you don't feel like it listening to it, basically they saw no reason to do Mash hopping and felt like FWH is like adding even more aroma (20min) hops.
I FWH almost all of my IPAs/APAs/American ambers and American browns. I believe it does give the "smoother bitterness" described but not really like a 20 minute addition.
Way back when hops were really cheap, I did some mash hopping. I don't know how much extra hop flavor I actually got, but my perception was a "deeper" hop flavor if that makes sense. Now that the price of hops has gone so high, I doubt I'll do it again.
Way back when hops were really cheap, I did some mash hopping. I don't know how much extra hop flavor I actually got, but my perception was a "deeper" hop flavor if that makes sense. Now that the price of hops has gone so high, I doubt I'll do it again.
Some of the opinions heard on the BN podcasts tend to lean toward mash hopping as a waste of hops, and fwh as a bitterness factor, and not quite adding up to a 20 min. flavor addition.... In truth I've only tried fwh and didn't notice it doing much different in anything. Mash hopping, although I've never done it, just seems like a total waste of hops..I'll reserve judgment until I try it, but I can't see myself being hop "rich" enough to...ever.
When I did it, hops were cheap- around $.30 cents an ounce or so! Big difference before the "hops crisis" a few years ago caused the prices to go up ten fold. I never do it now, but I'm considering using some homegrown cascades for a future all-cascades brew and MH one batch and not MH the next, to see if there is any difference at all.
The smooth bitterness sounds interesting. I'm not a huge fan of some of these IPAs that have a "smack you in the face" bitterness. That to me isn't enjoyable. I consider DFH 60 minute to be really smooth (just for a reference point). If FWH turned that in your face bitterness into a smoother bitterness, I would definitely try it out.
downtown3641
Well-Known Member
h22lude said:
You can also look at the bittering hops you're using. Something like Simcoe, Challenger, or even Nugget will give you a less harsh bitterness compared to Cascade or Cluster.
Yes, and it was often suggested to use low cohumulone hops for FWH as they are less harsh. Simcoe works great, because even though it often has high AAUs, it has a low cohumulone content. Noble hops have a low cohumulone content as well, but you'd need to use more of them since they tend to have lower AAUs, too.
The reason "my" DFH clone isn't harshly bitter is because it's bittered with warrior- a low cohumulone but high AAU acid hop. I've FWH that often and actually it's my preferred method now!
FWH was traditionally done with noble hops until the advent of the low cohumulone US bittering hops, but now I think "all's fair"!
I actually have your DFH clone recipe up on my screen now. I'll be ordering the AG ingredients tonight.
So do you take the 1/2 warrior hops that you would normally throw in at 60 and do FWH with those and then take the remaining half warrior and throw those in slowly until 35 minutes?
Yes, that's exactly how I've done it.
Gee... will wonders never cease. I went back on some old threads to refresh stall memories and ended up on yoopers thread for DFH. Spent a few hours reading there and a few else where; (with yoopers recipe on paper) just to come back here to read whats been said on the subject. Well what da ya know. I'll call northern today for ingredients and do this in a few weeks. Just saying..... Yoopers house ale was planned for one day this week after I got out of work. Man thats good beer and easy all around! Thanks Yoop! See ya around. Cheers
