First Time Step Mashing Question, Beta Glucanase Rest

[GrimyHoboSack]

So far I've only ever done single infusion mashes and then fly sparged. I'm going to try a Rye Stout this weekend and want to try a beta-glucanase rest at 110°F for 30 minutes before stepping up to 154°F. Not sure if it's entirely necessary with the amount of rye I'll be using, but it can't hurt and I want some practice doing this either way.

For Equipment, I have a round 10 gallon cooler that I use as a mash tun with a stainless steel braid, and a 10 gallon kettle. I'm working with BeerSmith to try to plan this out and so far I've come up with this as a plan:
Recipe is currently 14 lbs of grain and 0.5 lbs of rice hulls to mash with.
Add 16qt 117°F water to hit 110°F at a 1 qt/lb water to grist ratio
Rest for 30 min
15.5 207°F Water to hit 154°F at 2.1 qt/lb water to grist ratio
Rest for 60 min
Fly Sparge with ~0.7 Gallons to hit

So, my questions are
1) I'd rather do a thinner mash than 2.1 for the second rest, but it's going to take that to get the mash up to temp. Can I go lower than 1 qt/lb for a beta-glucanase rest? Is that too low already?
2) Should I just bump the water to grist ratio up to 2.3 qt/lb to skip a sparge altogether? And if I do how much affect will going higher have on fermentability?

 

[PoppinCaps]

Given those specs, I'd probably just not sparge, for ease. I don't think 0.7 gallons is going to do much for washing more sugars out, but that's just me trying to simplify things.

Are you just playing around with the beta-gluc rest, or have you found it essential for rye mashes? Mine seem to come out fine, plenty of conversion in 30% rye recipes. Never done that rest, but never thought I really had to. No rice hulls either.

 

[GrimyHoboSack]

Given those specs, I'd probably just not sparge, for ease. I don't think 0.7 gallons is going to do much for washing more sugars out, but that's just me trying to simplify things.

Are you just playing around with the beta-gluc rest, or have you found it essential for rye mashes? Mine seem to come out fine, plenty of conversion in 30% rye recipes. Never done that rest, but never thought I really had to. No rice hulls either.

This is my first time using rye and I'm only going for 20% Rye, so I really don't think I need one, but it seemed like a good opportunity to learn how. If you've managed 30% without rice hulls I'll probably skip out on those.

After thinking about it I'll probably just go with the thinner mash and skip the sparge, unless I can go lower than 1 qt/lb for the beta-glucanase rest.

 

[jaredkent]

I'm going in the same situation. I'm making a White IPA which includes 26% Flaked Oats/Barley. I've only ever done single-step infusions.

My recipe is currently 11.5, which includes 1/2 lb. of rice hulls. If I want to do a 110°F Beta-Glucanase rest with 4.25 gallons (which is a little less than 1.5 qts/lb.), Beer Alchemy is telling me to add 3.6 gallons to get up to my 153°F mash temp.

Is this a good idea? Should I forgo sparging? Should I even Beta-Glucanase rest? Any and all tips and suggestions are welcome.

 

[PoppinCaps]

Have you had problems with sticky mashes at that level of flaked oats? Honestly I've been waiting for a stuck sparge using similar recipes, but have never had one doing a single infusion mash, using all kinds of proteiny mess. Maybe it's just a big scare, and the problem lies in overcrushed grain and small manifold holes/collapsed stainless braids? I don't know. Double infusion mashes are tough trying to get a sparge in. I'd say try to get as little volume as possible in the rest, maybe 0.9-1qt/lb, and hope there's some left to sparge with. Personally, I would just skip it until I run into a problem.

 

[jaredkent]

This will be my first time using Flaked Anything in an All-Grain batch, so I'm not sure if I'll have a stuck parge or not. If I went with a .9-1qt/lb rest, I'd be looking at roughly 2.75 gallons with an additional 2.3 gallons for mashing. That would give me roughly 5 gallons, which would leave me 1.5 - 2 gallons to sparge with, for my typical 6.5/7 gallon boils. Is that small amount even worth sparging with?

I didn't think to bring this up to my LHBS owner, but he had originally suggested adding 2/3 of my grain and all my rice hulls to the hot liquor, then mix the remaining 1/3 with my 3# Flaked Barley/Oats and add that. This way the problematic grains will be on top, providing a decent grain bed underneath to filter.

 

[PoppinCaps]

A 1.5-2 gal sparge will do something, maybe not as much as a full sparge. Honestly, if your setup works for regular AG without a lot of flaked grain, I would just do it as normal. I don't think I do anything different than most people here, and I've just never worried about it because it's never been a problem. I say give it a shot without the rest. If you're worried, mix the flaked on top like he said, but only if you're fly sparging, otherwise you'll be mixing it in anyway. Let us know how it goes.

 

[jaredkent]

I'm currently reading the "Methods of Mashing" chapter in How To Brew. Palmer suggests starting with a stiff mash (.75 to 1 qt/lb) when using a cooler for your multi-rest mash. Using this, I could get a ~2.25 Gal gum rest, 2.15 Gal Infusion. This brings my total conversion volume to 4.4 Gallons which is a pretty good volume that leaves me plenty of room to sparge.

We'll see what happens. I very well may just go with the single-step, like you recommend. It will give me an idea of whether or not this is something I should worry about in the future. I'll make sure to post back with the results of whatever method I used.

 

[PoppinCaps]

That sounds like it will work fine. Just make sure to break up all the dough balls. That's going to be a thick oatmeal.

I built a HERMS system right out of the gate for this being one of the reasons, and I've never used it for that, just recirculating and mash out. Thought it was a bigger deal than it is.

Good luck!

 

[GrimyHoboSack]

I ended up skipping the beta step on mine, after talking to my LHBS guy I was finally convinced that it was going to be too much trouble. He recommended doing a decoction mash if I wanted to try a rest, but I didn't feel up to trying that yet.