First time brewer: cider smells and tastes like soft pretzels?

[Plissken]

Hi, first time brewer here. A few months ago, I decided to brew a cider. I used 1 gallon of regular, filtered and pasteurized cider, added one pound of light brown sugar (wanted it to be high ABV and sweet), and used EC-1118 yeast. No pectic enzyme or anything else. I let it ferment for a month (didn't test OG) and tried it. It tasted VERY astringent, I thought it had vinegared. I was careful to sanitize all materials used, but it was a rather make-shift setup.

I put the airlock back on, and let it sit for another two months. I tried it again, and the astringency is mostly gone, it's very sweet, noticeably alcoholic, but the main taste I'm getting... I couldn't put words to it at first. Very bready? Bagel-like? No! It tastes just like those soft pretzels you get at the ballpark.

What is causing this taste? Is this what is meant by a "yeasty" flavor? Is it safe to drink?

Since it's sweet, I assume bottling it would cause explosions, right? How do I contain this?

 

[Benenantor]

No idea, but now I crave pretzels haha.

 

[kgressler]

So its been fermenting for 3-4 months with EC1118 as your yeast and its sweet? This doesnt seem right. EC1118 should take it completely dry in just a few weeks depending on temperature.

What is your gravity reading currently?

 

[MarkKF]

I woulda guessed you used Baker's Yeast til I read EC-1118

Maybe it's the brown sugar. Mollasses? 1 lb per gal is a lot.

 

[D-west]

never racked off the yeast? I did that with one of my 1gal batches and it tasted bread like. I used cote de blanc yeast.

 

[WVMJ]

Couple of things, you are mixing astringency that comes from tannins with the sharpness that comes from acidity. Your acidity may just be from the CO2 and the acids in the apples. Your bready yeasty taste is probably from the dead yeast cells. If this is cloudy still its very easy to consider you are tasting all the yeast in it. WVMJ

 

[Plissken]

My mistake, I mistyped: in fact, I added two pounds of light brown sugar to the cider. I'm thinking it converted the sugar into alcohol to the point it could no longer live in the environment. It seems to be quite alcoholic, similar to port wine in alcohol flavor. Should I try to repitch the yeast? It is very cloudy.

 

[kgressler]

My mistake, I mistyped: in fact, I added two pounds of light brown sugar to the cider. I'm thinking it converted the sugar into alcohol to the point it could no longer live in the environment. It seems to be quite alcoholic, similar to port wine in alcohol flavor. Should I try to repitch the yeast? It is very cloudy.

You need to take a gravity reading. This is the only way to know if its fermenting still or it has stopped. I highly doubt it stopped fermenting if its sweet. Until you use a hydrometer your just playing russian roulette.

 

[Plissken]

Gravity at 1.020.

 

[kgressler]

OKay now I would wait a few days and check the reading again. It should fall further. Also think about racking into a new vessel to get it off the yeast cake and and make sure you fill up the air space in the carboy.

 

[Plissken]

Racked it into a new vessel, repitched the yeast, no change in gravity after a week. Bottled (very safely, in a stainless steel kettle with a top and weights on the top, in case of bottle bombs), after two days, zero carbonation. This morning I swirled them around and added put them in a warm water bath to see if I can get enough carbonation. Going to pasteurize in two or three days to kill any yeast, just in case.

 

[johngaltsmotor]

2lb of brown sugar would take it up to 1.092 before counting the sugars naturally in the cider. If the cider was 1.040 straight out of the bottle youre looking at 1.130ish. So if you're down to 1.020 that means it's 14%.
Not familiar with the yeast to know if they've hit the brick wall of too much alcohol to keep going.

 

[fuelish]

So if you're down to 1.020 that means it's 14%.
Not familiar with the yeast to know if they've hit the brick wall of too much alcohol to keep going.

1118 is pretty hardy stuff, can hit up to 18%, with a lil TLC....it's a beast, this should ferment dry

 

[Plissken]

After several days bottle conditioning, there is zero carbonation. Not even a pop when opening. The yeast is gone.

 

[Scotty_g]

Did you add any more priming sugar when you bottled? If there are no more fermentable sugars left from the brown sugar (seems unlikely but you did mention it was sweet), there will be nothing for the yeast to eat and make CO2.

It is also possible that your yeast have succumbed to high alcohol but I'd expect *something*.

Most importantly, 2-3 days is not enough to get much carbonation. Someone on HBT did a decent experiment and determined that you need 14 days to get good carbonation, but full head retention and carbonation takes 21+ days.

 

[mwilcox]

I put the airlock back on, and let it sit for another two months. I tried it again, and the astringency is mostly gone, it's very sweet, noticeably alcoholic, but the main taste I'm getting... I couldn't put words to it at first. Very bready? Bagel-like? No! It tastes just like those soft pretzels you get at the ballpark.

What is causing this taste? Is this what is meant by a "yeasty" flavor? Is it safe to drink?

just to be sure, I'd do an alkaline mouth rinse here (baking soda solution) and taste again. To me mouse is more of a popcorn than bready, but I've called it bread and called it vaguely pretzel-like before, so I'd be sure...

 

[Plissken]

Did you add any more priming sugar when you bottled? If there are no more fermentable sugars left from the brown sugar (seems unlikely but you did mention it was sweet), there will be nothing for the yeast to eat and make CO2.

It is also possible that your yeast have succumbed to high alcohol but I'd expect *something*.

Most importantly, 2-3 days is not enough to get much carbonation. Someone on HBT did a decent experiment and determined that you need 14 days to get good carbonation, but full head retention and carbonation takes 21+ days.

I didn't add any priming sugar because it was already very sweet.

I would let it try to bottle condition anymore, but it's gone. I let some friends, who are immigrants from China, try it and they loved it. Said it tasted like sweet rice wine. I've never had Chinese rice wine, so I can't verify.

 

[Scotty_g]

I didn't add any priming sugar because it was already very sweet.

This is your problem. At the end of fermentation (when the gravity stopped dropping...you did confirm this, right?) the yeast have eaten everything they can...either there is no fermentable sugar left, or the yeast have made enough alcohol to essentially poison themselves. Other posters have suggested that your yeast is very alcohol tolerant so the latter is unlikely.

Regardless of how sweet it may be, the yeast can't eat what's left to them so they can't make any CO2 to carbonate. That's why you prime with sucrose or dextrose - yeast eat them easily and quickly.

The "finished" cider may taste sweet to you, but remember your saliva contains enzymes and you have other receptors. Lactose is sweet to people but inedible to most yeast, for example. (I assume you are not a yeast.)

Sorry I replied late; you may as well drink the cider still and know for next time. Adding dry sugar to bottles is tedious and tricky to make consistent, unless you use Carb Drops or something.

 

[Plissken]

This is your problem. At the end of fermentation (when the gravity stopped dropping...you did confirm this, right?) the yeast have eaten everything they can...either there is no fermentable sugar left, or the yeast have made enough alcohol to essentially poison themselves. Other posters have suggested that your yeast is very alcohol tolerant so the latter is unlikely.

Regardless of how sweet it may be, the yeast can't eat what's left to them so they can't make any CO2 to carbonate. That's why you prime with sucrose or dextrose - yeast eat them easily and quickly.

The "finished" cider may taste sweet to you, but remember your saliva contains enzymes and you have other receptors. Lactose is sweet to people but inedible to most yeast, for example. (I assume you are not a yeast.)

Sorry I replied late; you may as well drink the cider still and know for next time. Adding dry sugar to bottles is tedious and tricky to make consistent, unless you use Carb Drops or something.

No, it was very, very sweet. It had three pounds of pure sugar in less than a gallon of liquid. The alcohol must have killed the yeast.

 

[Scotty_g]

No, it was very, very sweet. It had three pounds of pure sugar in less than a gallon of liquid. The alcohol must have killed the yeast.

Yes, this is your problem. 3 lbs of sugar in 1 gallon puts the OG at around 1.120 (give or take; I'm not looking up the exact ppg), and you're even higher than that. Without a lot of babying, that's a very tough wort to ferment even with a rugged wine yeast.

You can probably ferment an OG that high but you will need to do some research on high-gravity brewing. It would be easier to make low-test and spike it with vodka, although some would consider that cheating.