First time AG

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cryptomi

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Also posted in Introductions Forum but also wanted to throw this in here.

Hello all,

I'm a first time AGer. Been brewing with an outdated Mr. Beer brewkeg and extracts for years. Finally moved to a dual carboy system.

First beer (yet to be named, please feel free to help)

13 lb muntons pale ale malt 1.25-1.35l
1 lb briess caramel 6 row 120l
1 lb muntons chocolate 340-450l

Boil
1 tbs irish moss 90 min
.5 oz centennial 90 min
.5 oz centennial 60 min
.5 oz centennial 60 min

Steep .75 oz fresh julienne orange peel, 1 vanilla bean, 1 tsp ginger root for 30 min. Strained and pureed with 8 oz dry dates and 8 oz dry cherries. Puree strained and added to primary. Pitched English Red Ale yeast at 82F.

Day one (22OCT2012)
70F. Visible head (3mm). No off-gassing from airlock. 1 inch of sedimentary material at bottom.
 
Is this a version of "Goat Scrotum Porter"? Or Fruit Salad Porter? Seem like you threw the kitchen sink at it. :)

If it had been mine, I would toss the centennial additions in at 60, 30, and 10, or something like that. And the Irish moss at 15 or so, but whatever. It's your recipe - hope you like it!
 
You have .5 @60 min hops twice. Is it an ounce at 60 or is that a typo? Guessing the second one is actually an aroma or flavor addition?
 
menerdari said:
I second the irish moss, it should be added at 15 minutes.
Click to expand...

Does this actually matter or is it just standard practice? I always add at 15 minutes because it is when I add lots of other stuff (chiller, often hops, LME if used, etc.), but I didn't think it actually mattered.
 
I have read that it does, if added too early it loses its effectiveness. it has to do with negatively charged irish moss bonding to positively charged proteins. oooh my head hurts now.
 
Man that's a crazy recipe.. 80 IBU, all from bittering. Crazy fruit and spice ingredients. Dark malt. And English ale yeast pitched at 82 degrees. I'm also leaning toward "The Goats Scrotum".
 
Is this a recipe you made up?

Odd malts, with a citrusy bright american hop, but could be good.

I'd be worried that most of that fruit you tossed in there will just mold, and most of those flavors you added will be lost in there honestly.

What temp did you mash at?

Why did you boil the Irish moss that long? You could get a nasty taste from it, as well as it not really affecting anything anymore from such a long boil time.

Also, pitching at 82* will give you some funky ester with that yeast. Hopefully it cooled quickly, but I doubt it. Will get some nasty hot fusels if it didn't drop!
 
I have used the fruit/spice infusion before with Porter UME. The hops were added at 90/60/30/dry. I haven't used Irish Moss before, so I hope he long boil won't adversely affect the final. I have always pitched yeast at around 82F and never experienced any issues. It's possible that the conversion from the Mr. beer system to more advanced equipment may have thrown me off a bit. I plan to primary for 3 weeks. Checked this morning and now have a 1" head and good activity on the airlock. It is my hope that the fruit infusion will impart minimal flavor and add sugar to the fermentation process.
 
For your first AG brew, I would recommend a simpler recipe, maybe a SMaSH just to get the process down. You will want to dial in your system and process, figure out your efficiency etc...
 
EvilDeadAsh said:
For your first AG brew, I would recommend a simpler recipe, maybe a SMaSH just to get the process down. You will want to dial in your system and process, figure out your efficiency etc...
Click to expand...

This, i understand the need to want to jump in and go for it, but try some simpler SMASH or one of the many hundreds of excellent recipes found on this forum.

As im learning different styles from AG(some of which i havent ever tried), i goto the recipe section for the style i want to try, sort by Post count, and find one that has a ton of posts/replies about it and then make that. I figure if hundreds or in some case thousands of people have posted, then it must be good.
 
I appreciate all the advice so far. I'll try something simpler next time. I'll continue to monitor the beer, and determine whether to dump it as it progresses.
 
cryptomi said:
I appreciate all the advice so far. I'll try something simpler next time. I'll continue to monitor the beer, and determine whether to dump it as it progresses.
Click to expand...

No way dude. You can't brew something like this and not drink it.
 
bottlebomber said:
No way dude. You can't brew something like this and not drink it.
Click to expand...

Totally, you gotta see how it goes at least. There's plenty to adjust in future batches and all, but am curious how that whole thing turns out. :mug:

It was fun reading the recipe, going from "Damn, lots of dark malt... and really bitter... and... A fruitcake! Alright."

But seriously, Christmas/Plum Pudding seems like a good way to characterize it, potentially. Dark, roasty, fruity, festive -- it could be a thought for naming.
 
Ride it out.. It might turn out okay, and might be something you enjoy to drink.

On paper, it sounds like a train wreck honestly... Lord knows we've had beers that sounded great on paper but were a hot mess when it was ready to drink!

Do you have any physicals on this brew? Did you write down your mash temps, how long you mashed, how much you sparged, what was your pre boil gravity and post boil gravity?

All of that is useful in going forward to know your system and your approach to brewing. If you didn't get ANY of that, then, you missed a chance to learn.
 
Water temp at mash was 170° at the beginning and dropped to 147° by the beginning of sparge. I recirculated the wort twice during sparge and added more water to bring final temp back up to 170°. From mash to end of sparge was 3 hours.

This morning had serious burbling activity on the lock and the head is resting comfortably at 3 cm. A lot of fermentation happening and the off gassing smells like a dark IPA with obvious hints of he cherry.
 
Nice. I'm assuming that 170 is the temperature of your strike water, right? Once you mixed it in, what did you get?
Hope the yeast kicks its butt!
 
Yes. 170 at strike. Didn't take a second reading until sparging. Added more hot during sparge to bring it back to 170 just prior to boil.
 
When should I take my first sample for testing? What kinds of measurements should I be taking during this process?
 
cryptomi said:
When should I take my first sample for testing? What kinds of measurements should I be taking during this process?
Click to expand...

The less things you stick in the fermenter the better. I would take a gravity sample at two weeks, and a final sample at 3. They should be the same. But keep in mind that you will have to degas the sample to get an accurate reading, or else the dissolved CO2 will lower the gravity of the sample and give you a lower than accurate reading.
 
Need a little guidance.

Significant decrease in airlock activity. Was bubbling 10-12 times per minute this morning. Now bubbling 1-2 times per minute. Is this drastic drop in off-gassing in a 12 hour period normal? Do I need to agitate the fermentor? If so is there a preferred method shake/stir/swirl?
 
You only want O2 in there at the beginning -- at this point, shaking it has adverse affects. It's normal for gas activity to drop off pretty fast. For me, usually around day 2 or 3, there's a steep drop off as the yeast finishes up its primary fermentation then settles down for conditioning.

In the future, definitely shove a thermometer in your mash tun once the temperature has equalized. Especially if you don't know your equipment like the back of your hand, it could have settled at 156 which could give a significantly different profile than 148, say. Only knowing strike and after-mash temp doesn't tell you what enzymes were most active during that period. I'm sure it was fine in this case based on your final temp, but that's something to add to your brew day procedure.

Also, bottlebomber noted not sticking too many things in the fermenter... definitely! Last thing you want to do is mess up a batch because of a sloppily sanitized wine-thief. If you already know this, then disregard it: Remove the hydrometer sample with a wine thief rather than dropping the hydrometer directly in the bucket. I had a friend that did that and naturally had some trouble getting it out. It sat there 'till bottling day. :)
 
I've left the ferment or alone. Checking the temp via the adhesive strip type thermometer that came with the kit. Holding steady at 70° now on day 5. Given the complex recipe for this brew I try to not even breathe in the general direction of the fermentor for fear of upsetting the balance. I don't have a wine thief right now, however, I do have a siphon. Will this work? I'm meticulous about sterilization and have been known to use an autoclave for sterilization (friend is a piercer/tattoo artist and has a cabinet autoclave that she let's me use.)
 
Sanitize a turkey baster if you need to pull a sample. I personally, wouldn't bother even worrying about it at this point.

1 week in, it's probably not done. I'd check it mid week, and see what the gravity is. Then check it again some point during the weekend, and see if it's the same. If it is, then it's done.
 
Sterilized my siphon by filling my stock pot with 1 gal 200° water and 2tbs one step. Took a hydro sample. OG was 1.08 gravity is now at 1.02. According to Brewer's friend this puts ABV at 7.88%. Does this make sense for 11 days into a primary fermentation for an AG brew?
Tasted the sample. Seems like it will be a porter. Not a lot of bitterness from the hops, however I taste a lot of flavor from the fruits, particularly from the orange. Alcohol taste is non-existent. I plan to give it 10 more days in the primary before moving to secondary. Is there anything else I can/should do with this beer? Or should I just sit back and let the awesomeness commence?
 
Random thoughts on your random beer:
1. The ferm temp should be informed by the published range of your yeast strain. I usually set the ferm chamber for 1 or 2 degrees above the bottom of the published range, realizing that the temp gradient of the bucket will be 1 to 2 degrees warmer than the sensor (based on a heat study I did).
2. Prolonged mashing at 170 or above will likely denature the enzymes and prevent starch conversion. I usually mash at 154 and avoid even strike temps above 168.
3. Take SG readings when you want to know the SG. When I first started brewing I took them at about 3 day intervals. Now I just take an OG before I pitch, I take a SG before I bottle, and I do 4 weeks primary, 4 weeks bottle conditioning and no secondary.
4. When I craft my own recipies I usually decide the style I wish to design around, and then I review a few recipies from both the recipie database and Brewing Classic styles. I try to keep the stats within the range published for the style. Not because I'm a beer snob, but because the style guidelines have been established following hundreds of years of experimentation by some of the greatest beer brewing and drinking cultures in the world. I fugure that's a good platform upon which to start my modest contributions to the craft.
5. The forums give us all the freedom to voice our opinions. They also give you the freedom to accept or ignore our council. Please update this thread with your tasting impressions at first, middle and last glass. I'm interested to know how this turns out.
 
cryptomi said:
Sterilized my siphon by filling my stock pot with 1 gal 200° water and 2tbs one step. Took a hydro sample. OG was 1.08 gravity is now at 1.02. According to Brewer's friend this puts ABV at 7.88%. Does this make sense for 11 days into a primary fermentation for an AG brew?
Tasted the sample. Seems like it will be a porter. Not a lot of bitterness from the hops, however I taste a lot of flavor from the fruits, particularly from the orange. Alcohol taste is non-existent. I plan to give it 10 more days in the primary before moving to secondary. Is there anything else I can/should do with this beer? Or should I just sit back and let the awesomeness commence?
Click to expand...

Leave it for another week, and if you want to secondary it, do it.. Otherwise, I'd leave it there to clear on it's own from suspended yeast and then bottle or keg.
 
I always bottle. I have a large collection of bottles on hand to do just this. Including a case of pint bail top bottles that I love. Perfect serving size. I'dblike to have it ready for the day after thanksgiving which is when I start Christmas decorations. I had a Christmas beer in mind when I put this together, so I hope it turns out well.
 
You'll be cutting it cost to having it carbed I think, but it's probably possible if your lucky. It'll be really green tasting I bet and will need age
 
I'm considering skipping the secondary to have this ready by thanksgiving. Any thoughts on how this will affect the final product?
 
cryptomi said:
I'm considering skipping the secondary to have this ready by thanksgiving. Any thoughts on how this will affect the final product?
Click to expand...


Skipping secondary won't save any time. It's not a needed function really, but it doesn't erase time that the beer needs anyways.

Skip secondary, but you'll be pushing it.. It'll be green as hell.
 
Moving to secondary tomorrow. Wish me luck. What readings should I take during this process?
 

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