First Partial Mash- Dusseldorfer Altbier

[Somerville]

So I've decided to use the easy PM method from the Dummies guide which consists of using pots, your bottling bucket, a collander, 150-158degrees, etc.
To keep things very simple (baby steps), I'm going to concentrate mainly on converting my specialty grains--that I normally steep--to PM. Mind you, I don't know grain-extract conversions so please criticize if need be

Dusseldorfer Altbier

Extract:
5lbs of light DME

Partial Mash:
2lbs Munich Malt
2lbs Vienna
0.5lb Crystal 40L
0.5lb Carapils

Steep:
0.15lb Chocolate Malt

60min: *
1.5oz Tettnanger (3.5%)
0.5oz Saaz (3.3%)

30min: *
1oz Saaz (3.3%)

*Note on hops: I'm trying to use what I have in stock*

Yeast:
WL Dusseldorf Style Altbier

Water:
Bottled Spring Water (I'll get some PH papers, gympsum, and "chalk")

PF: 70-72degrees for 1-2 weeks
SF: 36-40degrees for 2 weeks

Thanks!

 

[brackbrew]

What's the difference in process you're using between the partial mash ingredients and the "steep" for the chocolate malt? I do partial mashes with each brew, so I'm curious.

BREW ON

 

[Beer Snob]

What's the difference in process you're using between the partial mash ingredients and the "steep" for the chocolate malt? I do partial mashes with each brew, so I'm curious.

BREW ON

In the PM he will be mashing as apposed to putting the grain in the grain bag and letting it sit in the pot untill it boils. Actually the 2lbs Munich Malt and 2lbs Vienna is what is going to be mashed. The 0.5lb Crystal and 40L 0.5lb Carapils are specialty grains that will be steeped along with the chocolate (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).

How are you thinking of going through the mash? I am not sure if Muich and Vienna can be done with a single step infusion.

 

[brackbrew]

Maybe I could use some clarification in what I'm doing then. I've been following the "partial mash" procedures from a Chris Colby article in BYO from last year...

I've been replacing about 1.33 lbs or so of extract with around 2lbs. of 2-row and steeping it with specialty grains at a constant temp of around 150 F for 60-90 minutes (depending on the recipe) at a rate 2 qts. water/1 lb of grain. Afterwards, I place my grains in a strainer over the kettle, add to the liquor from the steep an additional 1 qt. water/1lb of grain to it and pour the diluted liquor through the grains and into the kettle.

I know in terms of all-grain, that's nowhere near a mash, but up until now that's been my understanding a of a mini-mash or partial-mash. If I'm going about this wrong, somebody please correct me and make me a better brewer!

Thanks and BREW ON

 

[Somerville]

In the PM he will be mashing as apposed to putting the grain in the grain bag and letting it sit in the pot untill it boils. Actually the 2lbs Munich Malt and 2lbs Vienna is what is going to be mashed. The 0.5lb Crystal and 40L 0.5lb Carapils are specialty grains that will be steeped along with the chocolate (someone correct me if I'm wrong here).

How are you thinking of going through the mash? I am not sure if Muich and Vienna can be done with a single step infusion.

Bring water to 168, add grain which brings down to 150-158, keep at hour, start some sparge water, after hour, put strainer ovedr bottling bucket, pour/ladel grains and water over strainer, let sit, then put the grains which are in the strainer back over the pot (which you boiled the mash water in) and pour the water (now wort) from the bottling bucket back into the pot over the grains (recirculation). Sparge accordingly.

I'm bound to get something out of the munich and vienna, to be safe, maybe I should use 6lbs of dme.

Will you not utilize crystal and carapils more if you mash them as opposed to steeping? I don't think it will hurt.

I'm steeping the chocolate malt because all I really want is the color and a bit of flavor...

Any comments on my recipe?

 

[Beer Snob]

I know in terms of all-grain, that's nowhere near a mash, but up until now that's been my understanding a of a mini-mash or partial-mash. If I'm going about this wrong, somebody please correct me and make me a better brewer!

No actually thats a mash, at least to how I understand one to be. Sounds like you are doing what I tried (and what everyone seems to say is easiest), which is an infusion mash. Many grains need to be put at different temperatures for different times. That is what I did wrong in my firt one (used wheat), which is why I did a lot of reading on it (thatis why I made the commend to whether or not you need a more complex mashing scheme with the malts you are using.... you might but someone more experienced will certainly say something soon).

 

[Somerville]

For sparging, is 2 quarts of water per pound correct?

 

[Ivan Lendl]

For sparging, is 2 quarts of water per pound correct?

yup, about 1/2 gallon per pound. One question i have is about your ferm temps. You might consider doing more like 65-69 for primary(1-2 weeks), then maybe 55 for secondary (2 weeks)
That dusseldorf alt yeast is an ale that might not do well at lager temps. (ive used it at high temps (65) with good results.

 

[Somerville]

Well the problem is that I can only really do PF at 70 degrees (don't have space to put it in a bucket of water). Then I can only really do secondary at ~36-40 degrees because my German Pilsner is lagering in the temp. controlled fridge. Would the yeast die if I put the altbier during SF at 36 degrees?

 

[Somerville]

Ok, I revised the recipe. I've decided to combine a few things that I want to do--make an altbier, have it be high gravity, and do my first partial mash. So, I've decided to create a Strong Altbier and mash mainly what I would have steeped.

Somerville's Dunkle Prinz von Dusseldorf

Extract:
6.5lbs light DME

Mash:
1lb Vienna
1lb Munich
0.5lb crystal 40L
0.5lb carapils

Steep:
0.15lb of chocolate malt

60min: (using what I have in stock)
1oz Perle 7.7%
1oz Tettnanger 3.5%
0.5oz Saaz 3.3%

30min:
1oz Saaz 3.3%

Yeast: WL Dusseldorf Style Altbier

Boil volume: 2.7gal
Final volume: 5gal

Recipator says:
28IBU (just hitting the style range--28-50)
1.071 OG

Mash method is explained above (basic).

Can I get a reality check here? Is it too strong or not strong enough to be considered a "strong ale". I want the strength to be like a belgian--one beer makes you warm, fuzzy, and reaaalll happy

 

[Kaiser]

don't know grain-extract conversions so please criticize if need be

Sommerville,
where did you get the recipe from ?

The base malt for an Alt-bier is dark Munic Malt. From this malt you get most of the dark color. It is uncommon to use a light malt and darken the color with the addition of roasted malt. The latter will give you to much roaseted bitterness (stout like) which is very uncommon for German beers.

How does that translate into your recipe? Use Amber Malt extract as the base. This ME is made with munic malt. You may also mash 2lb of dark Munic (Weyerman Munic II for example). But you should be fine with the use of ~2oz of chocolate, though you may be able to cut that back to just 1oz when you use amber ME.

The hops look good. You don't want to have hop flavor and/or aroma in this style.

just my 2c on the recipe

Kai

 

[Somerville]

Sommerville,
where did you get the recipe from ?

The base malt for an Alt-bier is dark Munic Malt. From this malt you get most of the dark color. It is uncommon to use a light malt and darken the color with the addition of roasted malt. The latter will give you to much roaseted bitterness (stout like) which is very uncommon for German beers.

How does that translate into your recipe? Use Amber Malt extract as the base. This ME is made with munic malt. You may also mash 2lb of dark Munic (Weyerman Munic II for example). But you should be fine with the use of ~2oz of chocolate, though you may be able to cut that back to just 1oz when you use amber ME.

The hops look good. You don't want to have hop flavor and/or aroma in this style.

just my 2c on the recipe

Kai

Now I'm not sure if you were basing this critique off of my first post recipe or the post right before yours (a revised version). Though, the only main difference is more malt and more hops. There is a Weyerman Caramunich II but morebeer.com doesnt sell it. I would go somewhere else but morebeer.com is in the same state and even when I do normal FedEx ground, I get it the next day There is a Briess Caramunich which is 70L...
The first part of your response said that roasted malt would create an off bitterness for the style but then in the second part, you say I should be fine with 2oz chocomalt...what roasted malt were you speaking of?

I'm trying to create a strong altbier now. Heres a revised recipe:

6.5lbs Amber DME

mash:
2lb Briess caramunich
*ditched Vienna*
.5lb carapils
1oz chocolate malt

60min: (using what I have in stock)
1oz Perle 7.7%
1oz Tettnanger 3.5%
0.5oz Saaz 3.3%

30min:
1oz Saaz 3.3%

Yeast: WL Dusseldorf Style Altbier

Boil volume: 2.7gal
Final volume: 5gal

I didn't get this recipe from anywhere. When I make a new batch, I look at a bunch of other recipes of the style and then formulate my own from it.

Maybe I'm goin' crazy but I'd like to combine a couple of things that I want to do with a beer: make an altbier, make a strong beer, and do my first PM. But if this is going to lead me to a nasty brew, I'll abort. Here is a revised recipe of a more normal version:

5.5lbs Amber DME

mash: 2lbs caramunich, 0.5lbs carapils, 1oz chocolate malt

60min: *
1.5oz Tettnanger (3.5%)
0.5oz Saaz (3.3%)

30min: *
1oz Saaz (3.3%)

*Note on hops: I'm trying to use what I have in stock*

Yeast:
WL Dusseldorf Style Altbier

PF: 70degrees (cuz I have to)
SF: 40degrees-2-3weeks (a lager is currently in the fridge)

Which do you think is the best road?

 

[Kaiser]

There is a Weyerman Caramunich II but morebeer.com doesnt sell it. I would go somewhere else but morebeer.com is in the same state and even when I do normal FedEx ground, I get it the next day There is a Briess Caramunich which is 70L...

Don't worry to much about the Caramunich. And I was actually talking about Munic II, which is their darker Munic base malt.

The first part of your response said that roasted malt would create an off bitterness for the style but then in the second part, you say I should be fine with 2oz chocomalt...what roasted malt were you speaking of?

I was expecting this to be confusing . After I wrote the 1st part I went back to the Alt that I made some time ago and saw that I used Amber ME and 2oz chocolate malt. I would have to look at my notes to see if this actually gave me to much roasted bitterness.

I just looked at B3 and they have Carafa Special II, a de-husked roasted barley malt that can be used w/o giving the beer to much of a roasted flavor. I haven't used that yet, but I'm sure I will give it a try in my next Alt and other darker beers.

Regarding your reviewed recipe, I'm not sure if 2lb of Caramunich is a good substitution for the Munich/Vienna. Caramunich is a dark carmel malt and would give you to much sweetness. Just use 2lb of plain munich malt instead.

Kai

 

[Somerville]

Yeah, its strange, northern brewer and morebeer.com dont have weyerman munich II...they have others but not that specific one. Northern brewer has durst dark munich but its only 5L more than morebeer.com's regular munich. I'll just use regular.
Any thoughts on my "Strong" altbier idea? heres a revision:

6.5lbs Amber DME

mash:
2lbs munich malt, 0.5lbs carapils, 2oz carafa II (I'll try it)

60min: (using what I have in stock)
1oz Perle 7.7%
1oz Tettnanger 3.5%
0.5oz Saaz 3.3%

30min:
1oz Saaz 3.3%

Yeast: WL Dusseldorf Style Altbier

Boil volume: 2.7gal
Final volume: 5gal

Or I could just make it like the original with the said revisions...

 

[Kaiser]

Any thoughts on my "Strong" altbier idea? heres a revision:

That's how I would make it if I were to make another extract Alt right now.

But check on the color that you are getting from the grains. You don't want it to be black.

Kai

 

[Somerville]

That's how I would make it if I were to make another extract Alt right now.

But check on the color that you are getting from the grains. You don't want it to be black.

Kai

Yeah I ran it through recipator and it was hittin ~20 SRM out of the 10-16 SRM style range (brewmaster bible). I changed it to:
4 lb. Amber dry malt extract and
2.5 lb. Light dry malt extract

This brought it down to 15 SRM. I also added another pound of munich malt into the mash just to make sure it's strong.
This recipe looks good, I'll get back to everyone.

 

[uwmgdman]

Maybe it's in another thread somewhere, but I'm just curious how the alt brew day went and any gravity tastings to this point?

 

[Somerville]

Sorry, about a month late on this reply though that's because I just brewed the altbier. Mucho delay due to timing, space, vacation, girlfriend, etc.

Within this reply, I'll write out the final recipe, the process of my partial mash and any problems that took place.

Strong Dusseldorf Altbier:

Partial Mash (60min at 155 F, 10min Mashout @165 F, Sparge w/ 165 F)
1lb Vienna
2lb Munich
0.5 Carapils (Forgot to add until last 10 min of mash )

Extract:
3lbs Light DME
4lbs Amber DME

60min: 1.3oz Saaz (3.3%), 1oz Tettnanger (3.5%)
30min: .65oz Saaz
Note: The strange measurements are due to an error with the scale. Accidentally placed it on the spaces between kitchen tiles (uneven surface). Not too worried because Altbiers traditionally have low hop flavor and the malt is so high in the recipe that the extra bitterness will probably be beneficial.

Yeast: White Labs Dusseldorf Style Altbier

Servomyces, Irish Moss

The OG turned out to be 1060.

My partial mash was not hightech. It involved a brewpot, bottling bucket, collander, cheese cloth, and another pot to boil sparge water. I believe details are explained somewhere above.

The temp in California is currently in the 100s and I did not fully take that into account. One important thing I learned is to examine all of your surroundings before making your beer. Ask, what will effect my beer as it ferments? Though I really had not solution. The lager is taking up the fridge, I have limited space for a tub full of water. I had to use my closet. Either the temp is really high around my carboy or the Fermometer is broken . As a result, Im going with the "Consistency" philosopy. I always Primary my beers in the closet and they have turned out well so keep doin' it!

This is my first "big" beer and I didn't think to purchase a blowoff tube. Big screw up. In the morning, the krausen was bubbling out of the airlock (nice). In a fit of fear, I quickly rushed my splurging carboy outside and poured an unknown amount of beer onto the ground (don't know exact measurement but it wasn't that much). I cleaned it off, cleaned and sanitized the airlock and placed it back in the closet. I though for a while and then drove to OSH to buy a blow off tube. Though, now it has stabilized and is bubbling every 3 seconds.

I'm hoping and hoping that the beer is fine and has not experienced a bacterial invasion.

Moreover, if I had to do it all over again, I would have attached a blow off tube and found a good way to cool my beer's surroundings.

I have one question, since it seems that the beer is undergoing primary fermentation at a rather high temp (>78 F if my Fermometer is, in fact, not broken), will Secondary fermentation @ 35-40 degress in a temp-controlled fridge for 1 month be better than at the same roomtemp as my Primary (~75F)? I'm asking because the fermentation process for this altbier would be quite unusual; Primary @ 75-78 F and Secondary @ 35-40 F....

Thanks!

 

[blackspider]

Looking for a partial mash alt bier recipe. I have been looking around the forums and really can't decide on one. Looking for a little help....