first lager, what temps and when to kick them down?

[nicknoty]

i have a pilsner going with wyeast 2007 pilsner strain. the keg is bubbling hard with a few drops of fercap to avoid the mess at room temp brewed sunday started ferment by the afternoon yesterday.

i picked up a johnson analog temp control for my kegerator i have it dialed for 55 and i'm checking it with a glass lab type thermo.

is 55 cool for lager ferment and when should i kick the keg in there?

 

[Yooper]

55 is actually a bit warm for a lager fermentation, but it's in the ballpark for that strain. I usually ferment my lagers at 48-50 degrees. Here's the info from Wyeast on that strain:
YEAST STRAIN: 2007 | Pilsen Lager™
Back to Yeast Strain List

A classic American Pilsner strain, smooth, malty palate. Ferments dry and crisp.

Origin:
Flocculation: Medium
Attenuation: 71-75%
Temperature Range: 48-56F, 9-13C
Alcohol Tolerance: 9% AB


If you're at room temperature now, though, and it's fermenting so hard, fermentation will be about over before you lower the temperature to 55 degrees. It takes a long time to bring down 5 gallons of fermenting wort!

 

[nicknoty]

thanks, i'm still trying to dial in my temp control its either at 55 or 40 it seems no matter where the dial is in between its really touchy but i threw it in the fridge. i did a steam on sunday to and that is slowing down but started before this one so hopefully it will drop temp in time to benifit

 

[Nukesquad]

I've noticed that issue myself with my fridge. I have a spare fridge that I decided to use to lager. I'm making my first lager the beginning of next week so I've been spending time trying to figure out the temps of the fridge. The warmest I can make it (without turning the fridge off) is 45. Not to crash your thread, but would that be too cold for the initial fermentation? I won't have a problem with the lagering temps, but I didn't want to mess up the initial fermentation.

 

[Bobby_M]

If you ferment at 55, there's a good chance you'll get more esters than you really want in a lager. I made that mistake with WLP-800 on my last pils.

If you ferment where you should, about 48F, you better have pitched a nice 2+ liter starter or it may not make it to FG and/or you may have a diacytel butter bomb on your hands.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

i have a pilsner going with wyeast 2007 pilsner strain. the keg is bubbling hard with a few drops of fercap to avoid the mess at room temp brewed sunday started ferment by the afternoon yesterday.

i picked up a johnson analog temp control for my kegerator i have it dialed for 55 and i'm checking it with a glass lab type thermo.

is 55 cool for lager ferment and when should i kick the keg in there?

If I'm understanding you then I think Yooper is right. Is it fermenting at room temp right now and has been for ~24 hours? Is that right? Just like Ale yeast, Lager yeast will ferment faster at warmer temps (and also throw a lot more esters/fusel alcohols/etc.). You should have either pitched at ale temps and then immediately put it in the fridge as soon as you see the first streaks of that whispy foam on top or chilled it first and then pitched (but you need a LOT of yeast for that like Bobby said). I'm surprised you had such a long lag at that warm temp. How much yeast did you pitch?

Check out Kaiser's Fermenting Lagers page at Braukaiser.com.

 

[nicknoty]

If I'm understanding you then I think Yopper is right. Is it fermenting at room temp right now and has been for ~24 hours? Is that right? Just like Ale yeast, Lager yeast will ferment faster at warmer temps (and also throw a lot more esters/fusel alcohols/etc.). You should have either pitched at ale temps and then immediately put it in the fridge as soon as you see the first streaks of that whispy foam on top or chilled it first and then pitched (but you need a LOT of yeast for that like Bobby said). I'm surprised you had such a long lag at that warm temp. How much yeast did you pitch?

Check out Kaiser's Fermenting Lagers page at Braukaiser.com.

i did a one liter from a propagator smack. i know it is about half the reccomended rate but i kinda just jumped into it =(

one week lter and it is showing slow signs of fermentation, i proly did hold it a room temp too long.

 

[SpanishCastleAle]

i did a one liter from a propagator smack. i know it is about half the reccomended rate but i kinda just jumped into it =(

one week lter and it is showing slow signs of fermentation, i proly did hold it a room temp too long.

1 Liter from a Propagator pack is probably not even 1/4 of what you needed. I don't know the OG of your beer though. Try out the Mr Malty pitch rate calculator but remember that it is for Activator packs, not Propagator packs.

 

[markg388]

I'm beggining to see that I'm the guy who's made all the newb lager mistakes. I like to learn my lessons the hard way.

I just used that same strain w/o a starter (on the advice of a guy at the brew shop... last time I trust someone who claims to have won awards this way w/o proof) and fermented it in my basement which stays at 52 this time of year, and the beer smells like feet. I'm probably going to dump it, I'd rather waste it than try to salvage a 15 dollar batch. I've had great success in the low fifties with wyeast bavarian lager (1 gallon starter), and I'm going to try saf-lager next because the package says 51 - 59 degrees. You can make great lagers without getting all the way down to 48 for primary, you just have a way smaller margin of error. I hate to say it, but it doesn't look good for your first lager if you're hoping for a nice clean flavor.

Next time, make a huge starter and start your fermentation at 55, lower if possible. Lagers don't need to be at room temp for any period of time, no matter what the wyeast package or the guy at the brew shop says. Make the starter in the low fifties too.

@ nuke squad - I did my first series of lagers in a 45 degree garage-fridge and had both good and bad results. I'm assuming my good results were on a string of warm days when the fridge couldn't get all the way down to 45 and things fermented just as they should. The bad times included stuck ferments and off-flavors so strong it might as well have been contaminated. And schwarzbier bottle bombs, oh the early days were so much fun.