First IPA, Thoughts on hop schedule?

[TexanRudeboy]

I'm about to brew my first IPA. The malt and grain schedule are from Jamil's Brewing Classic Styles, but I'm altering the hop variety and schedule, and I'm pitching the slurry (Wyeast 3522) from a Belgian pale I'm bottling the same day. I'm looking for something kind of like Stone's Cali-Beligique, and I understand clone recipes for Stone's IPA come in ini the high 70's in IBUs. My recipe comes out to 79 using calculations from Palmer's book. Here's the recipe.

Volume: 2.75 gal
Target OG: 1.065
Target FG: 1.009-1.011

Extracts:
3.875 Lbs Pilsen DME
.25 Lbs Munich LME

Steeping Grains:
.5 Lb Crystal 15
.125 Lb Crystal 40

Hops:
.33 oz Horizon (11.2% AA) @ 60min
.25 oz Horizon @ 45min
.33 oz Citra (12.5% AA) @ 30min
.25 oz Citra @ 15min
.5 oz Amarillo (8.7% AA) @ 5min
.25oz Amarillo @ Flameout

I had an oz of each hop so I'll have .42 oz of Horizon, .42 oz of Citra, and .25 oz of Amarillo left. Suggestions for dryhopping using remaining hops, and the hops schedule overall would be much appreciated.

 

[Gitmoe]

Im not a huge fan of 45 min additions. I've been brewing a lot of IPAs and DIPAs over the last few months. I've stopped adding hops between 60 and 30. Everything else looks good. I would just slide that 45 to 30. For dry hopping you could just use the leftovers.

 

[TexanRudeboy]

Im not a huge fan of 45 min additions. I've been brewing a lot of IPAs and DIPAs over the last few months. I've stopped adding hops between 60 and 30. Everything else looks good. I would just slide that 45 to 30. For dry hopping you could just use the leftovers.

Thanks for the feedback. Can I ask your reasoning for moving the 45 min addition to 30? Also, I was kind of concerned it might be too much dry hop, although I've never dry hopped before. Should I use all the leftovers?

 

[Gitmoe]

45 mins is kind of a grey area between bittering and flavor hop utilization. If you want more bitterness, increase the bittering hops at 60min. If you want more hop flavor character, increase the flavor hops from 30 - flame out. For dry hopping I've been using around 4oz of pellets lately in my bigger IPAs. Your leftovers will be just over an ounce. That's a light dry hop for most recipes. A lot will use 2 - 3oz.

 

[TexanRudeboy]

45 mins is kind of a grey area between bittering and flavor hop utilization. If you want more bitterness, increase the bittering hops at 60min. If you want more hop flavor character, increase the flavor hops from 30 - flame out. For dry hopping I've been using around 4oz of pellets lately in my bigger IPAs. Your leftovers will be just over an ounce. That's a light dry hop for most recipes. A lot will use 2 - 3oz.

Gotcha. Thanks a lot. Cheers!

 

[TriggerFingers]

Its nice to see someone doing half batches (2.5-2.75 gallons which is what I have been doing for a while now).

I would ditch the 45 minute or add it to 60 and take your 30 minute Citra charge and bring it down to 0.

Stone beers get 90+% of their bittering from the initial charge, and the rest for flameout additions....I just made a similar beer with Nelson, Amarillo, and HBC 342 and it turned out pretty tasty.

Dry hop with whatever you have left. I normally do 2 charges of 4 days each, but you could get away with a single 3-5 day charge of the rest of your Amarillo & Citra.

Good Luck!

 

[thisisbeer]

Agree ditch 30 minute and add to flame out.

 

[TexanRudeboy]

I brewed this on 10/21 as listed, except I split the planned 45min addition of horizon between 60 and 30 min. I took a gravity sample today, 1.011 spot on, and it tastes/smells exactly how I hoped. I started it at 64, brought it slowly to 77 over a week, and now have it conditioning at 70. I plan to let it sit on the yeast 3 1/2 weeks and then cold crash 3-4 days before bottling.
As it is now it smells/tastes perfect. It has the perfect mix of citrusy hops and fruitiness from the yeast for my preferences. I'm very new to brewing so I've always let my ales go 3-4 weeks in the primary before cold crashing and then bottling so I have a few questions.
1. None of my beers have tasted this good this young. If gravity is stable in a couple days should I go ahead and bottle? If it tastes great now it's good to go, or should I still let the yeast clean up after themselves another couple weeks?
2. I let it sit. Since I'm very happy with the aroma now, do I dry hop it with the leftovers knowing the aroma will fade with a little more conditioning?

 

[TexanRudeboy]

Its nice to see someone doing half batches (2.5-2.75 gallons which is what I have been doing for a while now). I would ditch the 45 minute or add it to 60 and take your 30 minute Citra charge and bring it down to 0. Stone beers get 90+% of their bittering from the initial charge, and the rest for flameout additions....I just made a similar beer with Nelson, Amarillo, and HBC 342 and it turned out pretty tasty. Dry hop with whatever you have left. I normally do 2 charges of 4 days each, but you could get away with a single 3-5 day charge of the rest of your Amarillo & Citra. Good Luck!

I love the freedom of smaller batches. I hoping to start splitting off parts of batches to do various sour experiments.

 

[logan3825]

I am not a fan of any additions between 60m and 20m. I actually like to keep hop additions to 60m and 15m or less.

If your gravity is stable go ahead and bottle over the weekend. You might get a little more clarity if you leave it longer but the hops flavor will start to fade. Hoppy beers are better fresh.

 

[TexanRudeboy]

I am not a fan of any additions between 60m and 20m. I actually like to keep hop additions to 60m and 15m or less. If your gravity is stable go ahead and bottle over the weekend. You might get a little more clarity if you leave it longer but the hops flavor will start to fade. Hoppy beers are better fresh.

Since I'm happy with the aroma should I skip the dry hop and save them? I'll cold crash it so I'm not worried about clarity.

 

[Jayhem]

I get best utilization of my hop stash if I use a large bittering addition for the majority of the overall IBUs and then all the rest of the hops at 15 and flame out and whirlpool. Then dry hop with at least 1/3 oz per gallon after fermentation is complete and 7 days before bottling.

 

[TexanRudeboy]

I understood moving then 45 min addition, but why would I lose the 30 min? I want some flavor character from the hops. Moving them all to the end would only achieve aroma.

 

[Yooper]

I understood moving then 45 min addition, but why would I lose the 30 min? I want some flavor character from the hops. Moving them all to the end would only achieve aroma.

30 minutes doesn't give hops flavor to speak of. 20-15 minutes would, but boiling them longer than 20 minutes means they contribute to bitterness due to the amount of isomerization.

 

[TexanRudeboy]

30 minutes doesn't give hops flavor to speak of. 20-15 minutes would, but boiling them longer than 20 minutes means they contribute to bitterness due to the amount of isomerization.

Then why does John Palmer tell me they do, why are they called flavoring hops at 30 min mark, and why does Dogfish continually hop their IPAs if they don't think it leads to more complex flavor? I know it contributes some bitterness with utilization being a function of boil time and gravity, and they still contribute some bitterness being boiled less than 20 minutes. So why not do mid boil additions? Why restrict your hop usage all to bittering and aroma only?

 

[Yooper]

Then why does John Palmer tell me they do, why are they called flavoring hops at 30 min mark, and why does Dogfish continually hop their IPAs if they don't think it leads to more complex flavor? I know it contributes some bitterness with utilization being a function of boil time and gravity, and they still contribute some bitterness being boiled less than 20 minutes. So why not do mid boil additions? Why restrict your hop usage all to bittering and aroma only?

It depends on what you're making. I tend to make IPAs like this: FWH/15/10/5/0 (hopstand)/dryhop to maximize hops flavor and aroma.

I doubt you'll find many world class IPAs hopped with flavor hops at 30 minutes.

I didn't know Palmer advocated 30 minute hopping. That's a very weird thing for him to say.

 

[TexanRudeboy]

It depends on what you're making. I tend to make IPAs like this: FWH/15/10/5/0 (hopstand)/dryhop to maximize hops flavor and aroma. I doubt you'll find many world class IPAs hopped with flavor hops at 30 minutes. I didn't know Palmer advocated 30 minute hopping. That's a very weird thing for him to say.

DFH continually hops all their IPAs and they are continually regarded as some of the best in the country.

It's smack in the middle of the hop section of Palmer's main book.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, it just seems odd to completely dismiss the value of additions for 66% of the boil time. If utilization of bitterness, flavor, and aroma are a function of boil time it stands to reason that varying degrees of utilization of all three can be achieved by additions throughout the boil time. Why restrict the range of utilization by further restricting the domain?

 

[TexanRudeboy]

It depends on what you're making. I tend to make IPAs like this: FWH/15/10/5/0 (hopstand)/dryhop to maximize hops flavor and aroma.

I doubt you'll find many world class IPAs hopped with flavor hops at 30 minutes.

I didn't know Palmer advocated 30 minute hopping. That's a very weird thing for him to say.

Here's a recipe from a brewer you probably respect immensely that calls for hops throughout the 60-20 min mark.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/dogfish-head-60-minute-clone-ag-extract-25709/

Or this one with a 30min addition.

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/f69/stone-ruination-clone-155771/

 

[logan3825]

DFH continually hops all their IPAs and they are continually regarded as some of the best in the country.

It's smack in the middle of the hop section of Palmer's main book.

I'm not trying to be argumentative, it just seems odd to completely dismiss the value of additions for 66% of the boil time. If utilization of bitterness, flavor, and aroma are a function of boil time it stands to reason that varying degrees of utilization of all three can be achieved by additions throughout the boil time. Why restrict the range of utilization by further restricting the domain?

Between 60m and 20m is no mans land for hops. They will not add much bitterness and most flavor aroma boils off. They do add something but not enough of either that it is worth doing for most people. If you want bitterness it is best to add it all at 60m. Until about 20m the flavors and aroma will be to subtle and more than likely drown out by the volume of later additions.

I prefer hop bursting with a large dryhop.

 

[unionrdr]

Yeah,I add .3oz bittering hops @60 minutes. flavor additions @ 20,15,12,& 10. Any aroma additions are dry hopp[ed with the remaining hops from the flavor addition amounts. Worked out particularly great with the 8ozs I used in my Cougar Country IPA. It's just getting ready for fridge time. I used;
.3oz warrior @ 60 minutes
1.2oz mosaic @ 20
1.2oz simcoe @ 15
1.2oz ahtanum @ 15
1.2oz EKG @ 12
Dry hopped 1 week with the remaining .8oz of each flavor hop. Tasted & smelled world class at bottling time. Should be wonderfull after fridging a few today. Anyway,this schedules hop addition times are what I learned over time for best flavor/aroma.

 

[andrew300]

You will get all sorts of flavor with flame out additions, not just aroma. A lot of professional brewers are doing most of their hop additions in a whirlpool after the wort is done boiling. This provides all sorts of flavor and aroma as well as a high utilization of alpha.

 

[unionrdr]

I generally don't do flame out additions. they get lighter aromas than dry hopping. And not much flavor. Since our sense of smell & taste are linked at the roof of the mouth,they can be percieved as flavor.