First brew! Questions regarding fermentation

[RedMonte]

Hi, three days ago I cooked up my first batch of beer. It was a lot of fun and quite the learning experience. I made a english brown ale from LME and DME. I had some questions regarding the fermentation process. During the first 12 hours in the primary, nothing much happened. From hours 12-36 the fermentation took off like mad and actually blew the top of the airlock and the little dome piece right off the carboy and they actually hit the ceiling. Now, today, the third day, the carboy has very little gas coming out of the airlock and the 2-3 inch thick krausen layer that had developed has since dropped. The beer is obviously still fermenting just at a much slower rate. It is being stored in a closet and the thermometer strip on the side of the carboy reads 64-66 degrees. I have the carboy wrapped with a sweater to help try and regulate its temperature as much as possible. Is it normal for a brown ale to ferment that aggressively and quickly? I plan on leaving it in the carboy for atleast another 5 days before I bother to check the FG with a wine thief. The OG was 1.050. 5 gallons. Thanks for any insight!

Beer contained:
6lbs LME
1lb DME
Chocolate and Caramel grains
East Kent and Fuggel hops
Mangrove Jack Newcastle ale yeast-1 packet

 

[Homercidal]

Welcome! What part of Michigan are you from?

Your beer is very likely just finishing it's primary fermentation. 7 lbs of grain is relatively small, and the right yeast at the right temperature will chew through that in a short amount of time.

65 is generally a good temperature for yeast, but the temperature during the active fermentation could have been 70 or so. Yeast create heat when they metabolise stuff, like all things.

I'd say no worries. The only real way to know where you are is to take a hydrometer sample and see how much sugar is left in the beer. Maybe wait a week to do that. There will be some cleaning up that the yeast do and it's probably not started to clear yet. I tend to go about 3 weeks or so when I bottle beers. I don't wait as long when I keg, but that's because the beer will clear faster in the keg, in the fridge. You don't want to refrigerate you bottles until after they have carbed up.

Summary: Wait until about a week and check gravity with hydrometer. Maybe wait 2-3 weeks to bottle, depending on how clear you want the beer to be. You could maybe Cold Crash the beer if you are in a hurry, or use a fining agent if you want to mess with that. Or just be patient. Maybe brew another batch in a week while you are waiting.

 

[alexacuna]

Dry yeast usually takes a bit to kick in, depending on the conditions and recipe. I tend to bottle between 10-14 days as long as everything is stable. I reuse partial yeast cakes from previous batches, though, and that'll kick things into gear pretty quickly. I had a Black IPA put in ferm on Saturday and it was done by yesterday afternoon.

 

[RedMonte]

Thanks for the info. I see you're in Reed city, I pass through there when I go over to Ludington. I live in Frankenmuth

 

[ballsy]

Those strips are notoriously inaccurate. What was ambient temp? In air (as opposed to submerged in water, like a swamp cooler which I would urge you to do for easy and cheap temp control) you can assume the ferment temps are 5 to 10deg's warmer than the ambient air temp. So if thermostat is set to 70, your ferment temps are likely b/w 75 and 80. Some people get lucky and have basements that stay around 60 which is ideal. In a swamp cooler, the water does a better job at keeping a narrower difference b/w water temp and internal ferment temp b/c the water acts as a heat sink. You can read up on it here: http://www.woodlandbrew.com/2012/09/swamp-cooler.html

 

[RedMonte]

I have an unfinished, oldschool michigan basement. It stays around 60, even a few degrees cooler at night when the furnace doesn't run as much. There are no heating ducts that dump into the basement, the only heat down there comes from the furnace unit itself, which isn't much.

 

[RedMonte]

Well, today i couldnt help myself. I cracked open the carboy, making sure to sanitize everything including my hands, took a sample with a wine thief, tested the gravity and tasted the product. The gravity tested at about 1.016-1.018. I think the beer is nearly done fermenting, the yeast is just clearing up the turbidity in the carboy. The beer actually tastes fantastic even though it is flat, the aftertaste that it leaves is quite nice. The alcohol is a bit more potent than what i would have wanted/expected but besides that the flavor is about spot on. If I didnt manage to infect the carboy, which I highly doubt happened, I imagine that this is going to be a tasty brown ale! I have used some priming sugar calculators and most of them recommend about 3 oz's of sugar be added to this 5 gallons to carb it somewhere in the region of 2.2-2.5. Does that sound about right? I really want to bottle this beer asap. I understand that many people here suggest waiting 3 weeks for the turbidity to clear up but wont that happen when it is in the bottles for a week or two? I also understand that fermentation that is not complete will cause added pressure in the bottles. I plan on taking another gravity sample in 2 days to check if it has moved at all. Think I am ok to bottle it in a few days? Thanks!

 

[dstockwell]

I have used some priming sugar calculators and most of them recommend about 3 oz's of sugar be added to this 5 gallons to carb it somewhere in the region of 2.2-2.5. Does that sound about right?

I checked the Brewer's Friend calculator and for an American Ale in the mid range of 5G @ 2.4 needs 4oz of table sugar or 4.4 priming sugar. For a British style ale 5G @1.8 needs 2.4oz of table sugar or 2.6 priming sugar.

 

[btbnl]

The final gravity seems a shade on the high side - starting at 1.050 and ending at 1.017 implies about 66% attenuation, whereas - especially with extract - you'd expect that yeast to give something in the low 70s. As it stands the alcohol is about 4.4%, so certainly not overwhelming!

It's a moderately flocculating yeast, so it's going to be hard to get it really clear without filtering or fining agents; can you cold-crash before bottling?

3oz of sugar for ~2.1 volumes of CO2 sounds right.

 

[Aristotelian]

Well, today i couldnt help myself. I cracked open the carboy, making sure to sanitize everything including my hands, took a sample with a wine thief, tested the gravity and tasted the product. The gravity tested at about 1.016-1.018... Think I am ok to bottle it in a few days? Thanks!

1.016 is pretty high for a pale ale. 1.018 would definitely be too high. You brewed the batch, what, Saturday? Typical guideline is for two weeks and it has not even been fermenting for one week. I think you have a couple days before it is finished, but you should then give it a few more days after that. Wait til next Saturday to be safe.

 

[Moose_MI]

Greetings from SW corner of the great state of Michigan and congrats on your beer!
Rule 1...it's your beer and you can do what you want

If you have a recipe it should tell you what to expect for FG. Gravity readings a couple days apart confirming fermentation is complete is strongly encouraged.

personally, I never chose to package (bottle or keg) in less than 2 weeks. Have seen numerous folks do less but not sure if it's common for a brown....

It will be beer either way you go....

 

[kev211]

Well, today i couldnt help myself. I cracked open the carboy, making sure to sanitize everything including my hands, took a sample with a wine thief, tested the gravity and tasted the product. The gravity tested at about 1.016-1.018. I think the beer is nearly done fermenting, the yeast is just clearing up the turbidity in the carboy. The beer actually tastes fantastic even though it is flat, the aftertaste that it leaves is quite nice. The alcohol is a bit more potent than what i would have wanted/expected but besides that the flavor is about spot on. If I didnt manage to infect the carboy, which I highly doubt happened, I imagine that this is going to be a tasty brown ale! I have used some priming sugar calculators and most of them recommend about 3 oz's of sugar be added to this 5 gallons to carb it somewhere in the region of 2.2-2.5. Does that sound about right? I really want to bottle this beer asap. I understand that many people here suggest waiting 3 weeks for the turbidity to clear up but wont that happen when it is in the bottles for a week or two? I also understand that fermentation that is not complete will cause added pressure in the bottles. I plan on taking another gravity sample in 2 days to check if it has moved at all. Think I am ok to bottle it in a few days? Thanks!

Its recommended to leave it be for (generally) two weeks minimum for more reasons than letting the yeast settle out. While that is a large reason, another reason is that the yeast are not not actively fermenting by eating sugars and converting them to alcohol they are still working. After primary fermentation, the yeast still go about their business and clean up the bi-product of their fermentation, diacetyl. By letting the beer sit for a few weeks the yeast actually go and consume all of the diacetyl (which give the beer a buttery flavor). I know it can be hard to wait, but your beer will thank you by leaving it be

 

[RedMonte]

Does cold crashing just involve sticking it in a refrigerator or chest freezer? If so, yes I can do that. Also, my hydrometer is calibrated for 60 degrees, the beer i tested today was at about 62 compared to the ~70 degrees the beer was at when i tested the original gravity before pitching the yeast. The low attenuation maybe due to the fact that this beer has fermented mostly around 64 degrees. The yeast might be a little chilled, not sure. For my first brew, Im happy thus far.

 

[Yooper]

If it's done, it's done. There is no minimum of two weeks or three weeks, or whatever. It's done when it's done. Still, waiting two weeks is probably a good rule of thumb if someone needs a rule or a guess as to a good timeline for when to package their beer.

Many extract batches finish higher than 1.014- we have a whole huge thread on the "1.020 curse". In my experience many extract batches finished at 1.016-1.020. The key to when it's done is when the gravity is stable and no longer dropping at all, and when it's starting to clear. If it's clearing, that means the yeast is finished and is dropping out.

1.014-1.018 would easily be a reasonable finish for that beer with those ingredients. Once it's starting to clear, and much of the suspended sediment is at the bottom of the vessel, it's a good time to think about packaging it.

The beer will clear from the top down, initially looking darker on top than midway through and at the bottom. That's because yeast is white, and when there are hundreds of billions of them in suspension, the beer looks lighter in the carboy. Once it gets darker from the top down, it will eventually "drop clear", and that is the time I'd prefer to bottle it so I get less crud in the bottles in the end.

 

[kev211]

Does cold crashing just involve sticking it in a refrigerator or chest freezer? If so, yes I can do that. Also, my hydrometer is calibrated for 60 degrees, the beer i tested today was at about 62 compared to the ~70 degrees the beer was at when i tested the original gravity before pitching the yeast. The low attenuation maybe due to the fact that this beer has fermented mostly around 64 degrees. The yeast might be a little chilled, not sure. For my first brew, Im happy thus far.

Dont know what yeast you are using, but 64 is usually fine for most ale yeasts. And yes cold crashing is (basically) getting it as close to freezing without actually freezing it for about 24-48 hours.

 

[kev211]

If it's done, it's done. There is no minimum of two weeks or three weeks, or whatever. It's done when it's done. Still, waiting two weeks is probably a good rule of thumb if someone needs a rule or a guess as to a good timeline for when to package their beer.

How did I know you were gonna come in here and ruin my fun! Hahaha!

I know your not a big fan of letting the beer sit and age for sitting and agings sake, but what about diacetyl rest?

 

[Yooper]

How did I know you were gonna come in here and ruin my fun! Hahaha!

I know your not a big fan of letting the beer sit and age for sitting and agings sake, but what about diacetyl rest?

Remember that the diacetyl "clean up" is over by the time the beer has been at FG for 24 hours or so. It happens at the tail end of active fermentation, when the yeast are just about done digesting the preferred fermentable sucrose, glucose and maltose. The other less preferred sugars like maltotriose are tougher and are generally not among the first. As the active fermentation is winding down, and the yeast are out of those "easy" sugars, they'll go to work maltotriose a bit, and then even digest their own waste products like diacetyl.

But once they are done, they are done. This happens generally at the same time that fermentation is finishing up since only active yeast will digest diacetyl. The spend yeast on the bottom doesn't participate in the finishing up of this.

The diacetyl rest is done at that time- at the end of active fermentation- if one is doing one. Some yeast strains create more diacetyl than others, and for those yeast strains it encourages the yeast to keep active instead of falling to the bottom if the temperature is raised. Some brewers do it for all fermentations, but most only do it for yeast strains that tend to throw a lot of diacetyl and drop out early. It doesn't hurt to do one as a matter of course for all fermentations, but it isn't necessarily beneficial either.

If a brewer does one later than after FG is reached, it generally is ineffective.

Anyway, that's a bit off topic for this question but I did want to answer the question.

My answer is still, if the beer is done, it's done. It won't get "doner" by sitting. It will usually clear up by sitting, via gravity, so that is generally something I do. I make sure the beer is done, and has been done at least three days and is starting to clear (or totally clear) when I package it. Not because of any magical yeast activity, but because I hate crud in my bottles and kegs when I try to drink a beer.

 

[kev211]

Remember that the diacetyl "clean up" is over by the time the beer has been at FG for 24 hours or so. It happens at the tail end of active fermentation, when the yeast are just about done digesting the preferred fermentable sucrose, glucose and maltose. The other less preferred sugars like maltotriose are tougher and are generally not among the first. As the active fermentation is winding down, and the yeast are out of those "easy" sugars, they'll go to work maltotriose a bit, and then even digest their own waste products like diacetyl.

But once they are done, they are done. This happens generally at the same time that fermentation is finishing up since only active yeast will digest diacetyl. The spend yeast on the bottom doesn't participate in the finishing up of this.

The diacetyl rest is done at that time- at the end of active fermentation- if one is doing one. Some yeast strains create more diacetyl than others, and for those yeast strains it encourages the yeast to keep active instead of falling to the bottom if the temperature is raised. Some brewers do it for all fermentations, but most only do it for yeast strains that tend to throw a lot of diacetyl and drop out early. It doesn't hurt to do one as a matter of course for all fermentations, but it isn't necessarily beneficial either.

If a brewer does one later than after FG is reached, it generally is ineffective.

Anyway, that's a bit off topic for this question but I did want to answer the question.

My answer is still, if the beer is done, it's done. It won't get "doner" by sitting. It will usually clear up by sitting, via gravity, so that is generally something I do. I make sure the beer is done, and has been done at least three days and is starting to clear (or totally clear) when I package it. Not because of any magical yeast activity, but because I hate crud in my bottles and kegs when I try to drink a beer.

Well?... Dang. Haha

Fine, you win!

 

[RedMonte]

Thanks for all the help. I think I will wait a couple days and check the gravity again, if it hasn't changed, time to bottle. One of you mentioned that the abv is near 4.5% but honestly it tastes closer to 5% for sure, maybe that's because of lack of carbonation or what not but the alcohol is definitely present. For the first go around, seems fine by me. @Yooper, what part of the UP? Thanks again for all the input, much appreciated!

Edit: Also, the recipe I used stated a final gravity of 1.014

 

[Yooper]

Well?... Dang. Haha

Fine, you win!

Oh, I don't want to win, though! I hope I don't sound argumentative or "MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY" because I don't want to be a jerk at all.

I'm just saying that while brewing is an art as much as a science, we shouldn't give misinformation about the science part.

Yeast are living creatures, and while are on their on timeline to a large extent, they do follow a certain path. I'm definitely no microbiologist, and I love the art part of brewing, but I try to make sure that we try to be aware of what is happening during fermentation and following.

 

[Aristotelian]

I agree with "they are done when they are done", just reacting to the relatively high gravity and only one reading. I am also a big believer in "Better safe than sorry" and "patience is a virtue" in my limited brewing experience.

 

[McKnuckle]

+1 for sure.

If someone can tolerate cloudy, yeasty, green beer because they just can't wait to taste it - and I do get that emotion - then that's a valid choice... Especially for a new brewer.

But bottle bombs and gushers are a major drag. They totally ruin the experience. Why risk that? So, ten days absolute minimum time in the fermenter before packaging.

 

[kev211]

Oh, I don't want to win, though! I hope I don't sound argumentative or "MY WAY IS THE ONLY WAY" because I don't want to be a jerk at all.

I'm just saying that while brewing is an art as much as a science, we shouldn't give misinformation about the science part.

Yeast are living creatures, and while are on their on timeline to a large extent, they do follow a certain path. I'm definitely no microbiologist, and I love the art part of brewing, but I try to make sure that we try to be aware of what is happening during fermentation and following.

No I totally agree with you! I would call you out on it if you pulled the "my way" thing. But your description of it makes sense and I was always under the impression that a diacetyl rest took longer than that

 

[RedMonte]

Just thought I would give an update in case anyone is interested. I tested the gravity again today and it is at 1.16. I got a hold of about 75 bottles from a friend and am in the process of cleaning them out and taking the labels off. I think I am going to bottle this beer tomorrow and let it condition for a few weeks in the bottle. Thanks for the help, I will post some pictures of it after it gets some carbonation in a bottle.

 

[Bilbo1usa]

Soak those bottles in oxy-clean to get the labels off.
It works wonders on the right kind of labels.
Some types just won't peel no matter what.
Fill them with fresh water first, so they don't fill up with too much oxy.

1.016 is a bit high for a FG, but it'll do.
In the future, You can agate the carboy a little bit and raise the temperature, and the yeast will wake up and do a bit more work to lower the FG.
You should be shooting for around 1.012 or less.

No worries, your beer will be good.

 

[kev211]

Soak those bottles in oxy-clean to get the labels off.
It works wonders on the right kind of labels.
Some types just won't peel no matter what.
Fill them with fresh water first, so they don't fill up with too much oxy.

1.016 is a bit high for a FG, but it'll do.
In the future, You can agate the carboy a little bit and raise the temperature, and the yeast will wake up and do a bit more work to lower the FG.
You should be shooting for around 1.012 or less.

No worries, your beer will be good.

1.016 is quite hard to get with dme and lme so I'd say it's fine. But I agree with the oxyclean soak for the labels. A small brillo pad or something else scrubby usually helps speed the process uo

 

[ballsy]

Soak those bottles in oxy-clean to get the labels off.
It works wonders on the right kind of labels.
Some types just won't peel no matter what.
Fill them with fresh water first, so they don't fill up with too much oxy.

1.016 is a bit high for a FG, but it'll do.
In the future, You can agate the carboy a little bit and raise the temperature, and the yeast will wake up and do a bit more work to lower the FG.
You should be shooting for around 1.012 or less.

No worries, your beer will be good.

As has been said already, FG of 1.016 is totally normal for an all extract recipe. Re the "agitation/warming" thing: the couple times I've done this, it did absolutely nothing haha. Even to extent of slowly stirring up the entire yeast cake back into suspension...I had a big all extract Tripel end at 1.022, and a all extract RIS end at 1.020 and neither one budged which was because the sugars left were not the fermentable type (they're too "big") so the yeast don't care if you "wake them up", they aren't going to gobble sugar chains that remain too large. A more realistic option is adding amylase to chop up the chains into edible sizes for the lil guys, but in your case you are at a great FG so nothing to worry about.