First batch of cider--too fast? (1.075 to 1.000 in 4 Days!!)

[ciderlover]

Hello HBF!
I was inspired by a friend at my law firm to try out homebrewing, despite living in a tiny 450 square foot apartment on Wall Street in the Big Apple.

For my must, I used one 64 ounce bottle of Trader Joe's Spiced Cider, and one 64 ounce bottle of Shoprite Organic Apple Juice. Without sugar, the SG was 1.054; with about a pound of sugar I got it up to 1.075.

I put it in a gallon jug (a converted glass jug of tabasco sauce) with an airlock and some Lalvin EC-1118.

Bubbling was terrific for the first few days--once every two seconds. The EC-1118 was a true beast.

After 4 days--four, that's not a typo--the bubbling went down to precisely four bubbles per minute. A layer of sediment was on the bottom.

I poured it into a secondary, cleaned out the sediment, and check the hydrometer. It's 1.000. I was stunned! How is that even possible after only 4 days? I tasted the portion from the hydrometer, put the rest back in the carboy (and topped off with more organic apple juice) and am going to give it more time. The portion from the carboy tasted sour and dry. I added some apple juice to make it more palatable, and it's nice enough.

Has anyone else ever had this happen? How much longer should I keep it in the carboy? My thought right now is to bottle it in three or four more days, since the SG has already dipped so low. Should I bottle sooner than that? later? Any advice would be greatly appreciated--this is my first brewing experience, and I've relied a lot on the terrific suggestions and knowledge already on this forum. Thank you!

 

[Pappers_]

I suspect its all that sugar - one pound of sugar in 64 ounces of juice is alot, I think, and the yeast will just eat the sugar up in no time.

Your next steps depend on what kind of cider you are looking for: dry/sweet, carbonated/still, bottled/kegged.

 

[daugenet]

Did you put the whole pack of lalvin in?

 

[ciderlover]

The total fluid was a gallon, and I probably put in somewhat less than a pound. Do smaller batches brew that much faster? (1 gallon as opposed to what appears to be a 5 gallon standard for carboys).
I think I'd like it a little sweeter than it turned out, but also carbonated. Any good way to achieve this without having exploding bottles? I'm also game for keeping it dry and learning to like it. Fortune favors the bold.

I did indeed put the whole pack of lalvin in--probably overkill for a single gallon, but I was feeling eager. How much do you recommend for a single gallon? Half the packet? Less?

 

[CvilleKevin]

Gallon batches go faster. L1118 is a fast yeast. My guess is that your temps were on the warm side also. An ale yeast like S04 or US05, less sugar and fermented cooler and slower should give you something close to what you are looking for. Check out the sticky on bottle pasteurization if you want it sweet and bottle carbonated

I usually pitch 1/3 to 1/5 of a packet in a single gallon. It doesnt hurt to pitch more, but you can stretch your yeast out if you are doing gallons, just be careful with storing partial packets if you re-use them, keep in a sanitized bag, keep handling to minimum.

 

[cbitter]

Removing the strain of yeast from the equation, the key driver in fermentation speed is temperature... I'm surprised nobody asked what your temps were.

If your 450sq ft was, say, 75-80 degrees during fermentation, then I don't think four days is really that surprising... especially since you pitched the whole packet.

As someone pointed out, L1118 is a fast yeast... but I fermented a 5g batch of cider with Safale S04 (just one packet too) and it went completely dry in 6 days @72 degrees.

 

[kunstler]

Temp could be an issue but also the amount of simple sugars added. Probably combination of the two.

 

[daugenet]

I am pretty sure it was the over pitching of the yeast that did it. Go look on mrmalty and you can see that for 1 gallon you only need 0.4 packets of yeast, and ciderlover put in a whole pack. (which is over double the amount needed)

Yes temp will play a role but that doesnt seem to be the case to me.

 

[ciderlover]

I'll use much less yeast next time. Also a less vigorous strain.
Temp was about 80 for most of that week, I believe.

 

[Pappers_]

You might try to ferment in the 60s - if you use an ale yeast, that temperature range will give you good results. Fermenting at 80 will lead to extra vigorous fermentations, but also potentially off flavors too, like a 'hot' alcohol taste.

 

[CvilleKevin]

Temp was about 80 for most of that week, I believe.

That and the L1118 are the culprits. If you had pitched a quarter packet, it might have taken a few hours longer, but not much. Try to keep the temp below 70. Ideally 60-65, although that is tough in a small apt.

 

[ciderlover]

Sadly, I don't have much control over temperature--I'd love to keep the apartment a bit cooler, but my ladyfriend prefers it warm (80ish).

I'll opt for a different type of yeast next time.

 

[CvilleKevin]

If temps are ~80 and you cant get them down, then you dont have a lot of yeast options. Ale and wheat yeast pretty much top out at 75F and quite a few before that. If you can drop the temp to 75 you have better choices, otherwise IMHO you are better off sticking with the L1118, and adjusting to the fast fermentation time, which means timing it so you can keep an eye on it for that 4th day of fermentation if you want to stop it with any residual sugar. L1118 is nice and clean but it is harder to stop. Not impossible though. Gallons are easier to cold crash. If you bottle carb and pasteurize, keep in mind that carb time will be much less as well.

 

[Fletch78]

Cville, what are the chances he could get 1118 or a lager yeast to eat that cider sugar up in the refrigerator over a couple of weeks, for his next batch? Don't the french do some kind of weird ferment thing with cider at cold temps?

 

[Fletch78]

In addition to what Cville says next...

ciderlover should consider keeping it in the fridge at night and on the counter during the day, or vice versa. Sure, there are temp swings there, but it's better than keeping it over 80.

ciderlover, go ahead and dump out what you have.

 

[CvilleKevin]

L1118 has a huge temp range. 45-95, ideal 50-86. I'd just go with 80, be prepared for a super fast ferment, and see how that works. Or maybe see how the low end works out in the fridge. Lager yeasts dont go much lower than L1118. Fresh unpasteurized juice will ferment in the fridge with the natural yeast if you give it 4-8 months.

 

[Pappers_]

There's an easy way, low-tech way to get fermentation temps down - go with either a swamp cooler (search for lots of threads on it) or an even easier variant of it, that I sometimes use. Take a large plastic container, put your carboy in it, fill with water, and swap out frozen soda or juice bottles twice a day. I keep a floating thermometer in the water and a strip thermometer on the carboy. Easy as pie.