First batch, did I mess up? Bottle Bombs?

[schmittychris]

It's a long story but my wife gave me some beer brewing equipment for Christmas. I had been wanting to get into it for a long time. After consulting with a friend of mine she decided to set me up for BIAB 2-3gal batches, which is perfect. I was waiting for my friend to have some free time to help me out but got impatient. So I went to the LHBS and picked out an extract recipe that sounded good. I'm a big fan of dopplebocks so that's what I picked out. Turns out I don't have the equipment to larger. So the owner of the store said to just switch the yeast to S-04. It was a partial mash recipe as follows:

1lb Amber dry extract
6.6lbs Dark LME
1lb Carmel Malt-80L
2lb Briess Munich Malt 10L

1oz Saaz 4% 60min
1oz Saaz 4% 30min
2oz Hallertauer 15min

1 pkg S-04

30 min infusion, 60 min boil

I did a 3.5 gal boil and added 2 gal post boil to make a 5 gal batch. OG=1.055

It fermented great for the first 4-5 days. At day 7 I racked to secondary. At this time I took a SG reading and it was 1.030. It fermented for a bit. I talked to a friend of mine and told him how I had missed my OG, which was supposed to be 1.068. He said to boil up a lb of DME and carefully add it to the secondary and it would help with the alcohol. So I did that. I took a reading at that time and it was still 1.030. It fermented the extra DME and I let it sit for about 2 weeks. I took another reading and it was still 1.030. Sat another week and it was still 1.030.

I'm confused as to how it can ferment that extra lb of DME and the SG didn't change at all. I tried moving to a warmer place, shaking it a little. It didn't change at all. I was sick of messing with it and anxious to brew another batch so I just bottled it. It's been sitting for about 4 days now and my buddy is telling me that I bottled too early and they may explode. I figured if they haven't already then I'm probably good.

My initial thoughts were that my hydrometer wasn't working correctly. I tested it in some water and it read 1.002. I also brewed another batch and hit my OG at 1.050, so I think it's working correctly. Is there possibly something that I did during mash or boil that would have caused it to stop fermenting AT 1.030? To me, it doesn't make any sense that it could ferment the DME and not change but I'm new to this.

 

[eadavis80]

1.030 is very high. If I read your post correctly, you added extra DME but the gravity did not change. I'm not sure why your friend would think adding more fermentable sugars (DME) would LOWER the gravity reading. In adding DME you're giving the yeast MORE sugar to feed on. Since the gravity was not lowering the yeast in there were already over worked for some reason, which is odd if you pitched a whole packet of dry. Did you rehydrate it? Was there yeast nutrient? Did you aerate properly prior to pitching? If the beer sat at mid/upper 60's for two weeks and didn't lower its gravity, that is odd. I think maybe the yeast went into the wort with less than ideal conditions. When you do open these bottles, open them SLOWLY!

 

[Spacefiller]

Sounds like an unsuccessful mash, did you do an iodine test?

 

[Psylocide]

What temp were you fermenting at? Seems to have finished (or stalled) awfully high... what temp where the hydrometer readings taken at?

I'd put those bottles in a rubbermaid container or something if you have one, unless it's a mashing issue.

 

[schmittychris]

The thought was to raise the OG by adding the extra DME in order to increase the alcohol content. I did re-hydrate it. boiled for 15 min, cooled then added.

No yeast nutrient.

I poured the wort back and forth between pales to aerate a couple of times.

Wort was at 70 degrees when pitched.

No iodine test.

Fermenting 62-68 degrees. Readings at about the same.

Bottles are in a rubbermaid. I'm fully expecting an explosion.

What would make an unsuccessful mash?

 

[Psylocide]

The thought was to raise the OG by adding the extra DME in order to increase the alcohol content. I did re-hydrate it. boiled for 15 min, cooled then added.

No yeast nutrient.

I poured the wort back and forth between pales to aerate a couple of times.

Wort was at 70 degrees when pitched.

No iodine test.

Fermenting 62-68 degrees. Readings at about the same.

Bottles are in a rubbermaid. I'm fully expecting an explosion.

What would make an unsuccessful mash?

I'm confused about that comment as well... not sure why 04 would stall out that high.

You probably missed your OG due to the top-off water not being mixed well with the wort. It seems really difficult to get those sufficiently mixed together on partial boils.

My thought is... you added that lb of DME late in the fermentation, the 04 could've been in the cleanup stage when you hit it with a large dose of fermentable sugar... not sure what that would do to the yeast, but it may have played a role.

Hopefully someone more knowledgeable than I can chime in.

 

[Spacefiller]

An unsuccessful mash would mean you failed to convert all of the starches in the grain to usable fermentable sugars during the mashing process. Iodine yields a purple-bluish result from unconverted starch.

 

[Spacefiller]

You know I missed the part about the bottle bombs, I have no Idea about that considering your scenario. I was simply addressing the question from the high FG. It could possibly be a bad mixing, but I've never had issue with partial boils.

 

[oogaboogachiefwalkingdeer]

It is an extract batch if I read correctly. So it is not a mash issue.

 

[madscientist451]

The dried malt extract doesn't need a mash to convert the fermentable sugars, but the caramel 80 and the Munich (total 3 lbs) should have converted some. That might be the problem, you got some sugar from the grain but not fermentable sugar. Also, your OG was off by 12 points.
What was your strike water (mash) temperature, did you stir it in, and what was the temperature during mashing?
If you don't already have it, there's a free version of John Palmer's
"How to Brew" available on his website:
http://www.howtobrew.com/intro.html

You can find lots of great information there about the brewing process.

 

[joshesmusica]

just make sure you keep reading up on everything you can find about partial mash. not as easy as it seems unless you do read up.

(i personally love looking up as much as i can before i jump into something, so i'm often posting links for people to read on this thing.)

https://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Iodine_test

i found this one very helpful, especially the chart at the bottom to help you understand how much you're capable of with grains on a partial mash (of course estimating for space for a boil as well)

http://byo.com/light-ale/item/2543-converting-to-partial-mash

here is one to get proper gravity readings:
http://www.brewersfriend.com/hydrometer-temp/

and lastly, 62-68 degress is a big difference in the strongest days of fermentation. because the action of the yeast also creates heat, it's usually best if your ambient temp is around 62-63 to allow fermentation to be around 67-68 (and even that depends on the yeast). also you want to make sure that the temperature is as stable as possible. major fluctuations of temperature stress the yeast and can cause them to produce too many off falvors and floc out too early.

the best thing you can do for your beer is to read up as much as you can possibly take in. apply those things to your next couple of beers until you fully understand the effect of each new thing. then go learn some more!

 

[Spacefiller]

It is an extract batch if I read correctly. So it is not a mash issue.

It is a partial mash. So it could quite possibly still be a mash issue. Especially due to the high final gravity it is quite plausible the yeast utilized the extract portion but the mashed grains were not successfully enzymatically converted to break down the carbohydrate to usable fermentable sugars. There may be some longer chains that are not fermentable by sach.that are allowing for the 1.030 FG. The bottle bombs are what I cannot explain, I suppose it is possible to have a slight brett. infection that would be able to eat the longer chains/dextrins and lead to bottle bombs but that would be a string of unfortunate events.

 

[joshesmusica]

i don't think he's saying he's already had bottle bombs. just that he's expecting it.
i would think that if these sugars haven't been fermented by this point, then they probably won't. you'll be left with some very sweet beer is all. but as they say, at least it's beer!
but more importantly, it's a learning experience toward making better beer!

 

[estricklin]

Welcome to the forum! Your in the right place to learn and become a great brewer!

Those temperature swings definitely weren't good for the yeast, and could be one cause for such a high finishing gravity. Did you rehydrate the dry yeast?

At this point let's face it, you've bottled it and it is what it is. The bad news is you may end up with bad beer or bottle bombs, so keep an eye on them and maybe try to drink them or get them in the fridge as soon as you can and they have reached a decent level of carbonation. The good news is you have lived to brew another day. Check out some books on homebrewing such as "How to Brew" and "Yeast". Obviously this forum is a great place to find information too, don't be scared to ask questions.

 

[schmittychris]

I didn't realize that a temp swing from 62-68 would be that big of a deal. The recipe said to keep it between 60-70 so I thought as long as I didn't go outside that range I'd be fine. I'll have to find a place that is more consistent, but it's hard with the wife always screwing with the thermostat. I did not rehydrate the yeast. No bottle bombs yet. I tried some of it when I bottled and it wasn't too sweet. No more really than a typical dopple.

Thanks for all of the replies. After doing more research I think it was a mash issue as well. I don't think the 30 min was enough to convert and I mashed in my brew kettle. I remember the temp dropping too low and then I turned on the heat to get it back up and may have gone too high. Looks like I need to make a mash tun...

That said, I was able to control my second batch a lot better (read: I brewed when the wife and kids were out so I was able to pay better attention). It was also all grain and I used a starter. Actively bubbling away! Keeping fingers crossed.

I definitely read "How to Brew" before I started this journey. The advice should be to read it, reread it, and reread it. There's way too much info there to get in reading it once.

 

[joshesmusica]

yes actually, i'm working on an article right now, and that is one of the things i advise. read all you can take in at that moment. go apply it. the application experience will help it stick in your long term memory, and help free up space for more learning in your short term memory. keep reading and having fun!

 

[Spacefiller]

A couple of notes...
-There is a reason why most "partial mash" kits are rated "intermediate level". Not saying you can't hack it but they do require a little extra attention.

-The mash temperature has to be held at just the right temperature and I can tell you from experience that if you are mashing in a "bag" the temperature may not be uniform amongst the gradient that is the top of the bag to the bottom, I would usually move my thermometer to different points in the pot/tun to account for this. looks like you may have realized this, it requires some honed technique to be sure.

-You indicated a 30min. mash time, I've never seen less than 45 min. in a partial mash and I've had best luck holding mash temp for 60min on partial mashes.

-I forgot to ask if you added maltodextrin? This would allow for a higher FG, if you didn't add maltodextrin then I would arrive back at my "inefficient mash" conclusion. Gravity readings via hydrometry can be confusing if you don't fully understand what solids are in your wort/beer. I am lucky, I work at a distillery and can run HPLC analysis to provide a full sugar proile as wel as % ethanol, so I hardly perform hydrometry anymore.

Looks like you have some great resources provided by other posters, definetly keep reading.

Good luck, happy brewing.

 

[Skiffy]

A few comments.

First off, are you sure you are using a hydrometer and not a refractometer? ARE YOU SURE!!!

If you are sure then, secondly, your original gravity was exactly that of the LME and DME, meaning you got nothing from the grains (assuming the reading is correct, in terms of the wort being mixed properly and the temp of the sample). Something definitely went wrong with the mash ... but that's ok you can always correct until you got it down. So no matter what you did with your grains, the LME and DME should ferment way further down than 1.030 (again, sure you are not using a refractometer?). Bottle bombs are certainly a possibility as the beer carbs/warms.

Edit: also sounds like you transferred to secondary while it was still fermenting, which could throw things off. Leave it in the primary until its done fermenting, or better yet, leave it in the primary the whole time and skip the secondary.

 

[schmittychris]

Yes I'm sure I'm using a hydrometer. The one that says hydrometer on it. Right?

After doing a lot of research I'm pretty sure that I messed up the mash for the grains. The 1.03 would make sense if there were sugars extracted from the grain but not converted to simple sugars that were fermentable.

It was definitely done fermenting when I racked to secondary.

On a side note, I opened one last weekend and it was surprisingly pretty good. It was a little sweet (not as much as I expected) and malty with a coffee finish. It drank much like a double Belgian but only has about 4% ABV. There was some Diacetyl buttery flavor that wasn't unwelcome. Overall, a partial success for a partial mash. It's good, but I wish I didn't have 20 22oz bottles of it.

 

[joshesmusica]

well the good news is there's still prolly some melding left to happen with the flavors. how long's it been bottled?

 

[Skiffy]

The reason I asked about the hydrometer is that using a refractometer post fermentation often leads to 1.030 readings if left uncalibrated. Your FG should have raised .008 points after adding the extra pound of DME and shouldn't have fermented back down to 1.030 as DME is not fully fermentable. The consistent 1.030 readings simply can't be accurate.

It's possible that your OG was actually 1.080 which if mostly extracts and highly mashed grains could end up at 1.030. I think people typically get lower attenuation with S04 so it's not impossible. That would put your beer at much higher than 4 percent though.

Glad the beer turned out drinkable. That was my only goal for brew 1 so I say mission accomplished!